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December 9th, 2003, 09:31 PM
It would be intresting how other people start off their pictures.
I start off with pencil then edit, outline with a gel pen "im cheap, I know" and finally scan onto Adobe and color away!

hows everyone else do it?


Question: my pen doesn't write if I go over the pencil, is there a special pen for this, or a special pencil??? Any help will be appricated!

Ciarin
December 9th, 2003, 09:38 PM
I use a pen mostly. Sometime I use a pencil for the more intricate things, like a cathedral (http://art.ciarin.com/cathedral.jpg).

If I'm doing something realistic, I have a model in front of me and I start sketching what I see. I just pick an area and go from their. With people (http://art.ciarin.com/faces.jpg) I usually start with the forehead, eyes, or the hair.

If I do color, it's usually in acrylic or oils. The dragon (http://art.ciarin.com/new/dragon3.jpg) I did was the first time I've used digital media.

If I'm doing something abstract or surreal, I just sketch something (http://art.ciarin.com/abstract3.jpg) and continuously add upon it.

Tenolein
December 9th, 2003, 10:11 PM
I jump around.

Mostly I'll start with the face... Eyes, nose, mouth and such. Then I may jump to the hands or the arms, then the beltline, then feet, then back to the head again. I'm kinda sparatic like that.

Only some of my pictures turn out the way I want them to though unfortunately. I need to hit up a school to refine my work.

On the other hand, if I let my hand go, normally it'll come up with something really abstract. Or a few random cartoon characters. Those are the pieces of work that I like to call my 'poop pages'. They have no energy, thought, or time put in them. I'm normally day dreaming or half asleep when I do these. I tend to like how they turn out, on a few random occasions that I dont, I rip up the paper, and start anew.

Just kinda depends on my mood and/or what time of day it is for me.

Velenka
December 10th, 2003, 01:18 AM
I almost always start with the eyes, and in pencils. I only began using ink to go over the sketches when I decided to start scanning them in and coloring with photoshop. Most of the time I stick with pencil. My cheap arse uses pilot gel pens, too. I try to splurge on paper though, and get the smoothest-yet-most affordable kind possible. I use 70lb/sheet paper, dunno what that translates into, but I find the lines stay cleaner on it. I know Woody says he uses bristol board, and that seems to work pretty darn well :)

With animals, I'm finding, I have to do the outline of the critter first then work on the eyes/face after the outline is established. If I start with the eyes the animals look too human.

Other medias... I've worked a little with watercolor and acrylic, but as it stands, since I last moved, I can't find any of my durn paintbrushes and I'm at a point in my life where I can't buy more.

KiTA
December 10th, 2003, 01:52 AM
I suck at drawing, but how I start is a simple circle for the head, about 5/6th of the way up the page. The rest of the body I base on that. Torso is 2 1/2 heads tall, legs are 3 heads tall, they're 1 1/2 - 2 heads wide, depending.

DaMrac
December 10th, 2003, 02:58 AM
phear!! when i try to do something it always looks like total crap!! I randomly start withwhatever I can think of doing first. sometimes teh head, sometimes the armor the character is wearing!! like I sed, I'm horrible at this and I really want to get good at it. but like woody says, keep doodling and you'll get better!! hopefuly i will someday

lymlym
December 10th, 2003, 04:22 AM
I do a very light outlines using between 4h-8h pencils on drawing paper then use the 01-05 pens to outline it then do the shading.
then I scan the outlines, tweak it (using RGB mode) on the brightness/contrast using Adobe Photoshop 6, then color it with Opencanvas, and finish the rest back at Photoshop again.

Velenka
December 10th, 2003, 06:05 AM
Damn, 8H pencils? I can barely see the lines at that hardness. I think it's a bias I grew up with though---I learned to draw with cheap mechanical pencils, so I tend to want to use B or HB pencils, or even a 2b. Been trying to draw with 3H though, leaves less un-erasable lines behind :)

Ciarin
December 10th, 2003, 06:06 AM
lightest I ever use is 2h.....

Jishia
December 10th, 2003, 10:38 AM
My work is shoddy and done with a $1 Mech Pencil and Eraser, so most times I sell commision for almost Dirt.

Dreleen
December 10th, 2003, 12:39 PM
I only draw with mechanical pencils hahahaa. /hide
I get lazy and dont wanna resharpen crap as I go. As for technique I mainly just doodle in regualar sketch books and I hardly ever touch the original sketch with ink or color or anything if I can help it (too scared to mess it up) If I want to color it I use photo shop. Just scan in the pencil and work on it there. Sometimes I just free hand in photoshop too but that can get fustrating if you dont have an unlay drawing to match it up to.

When drawing bodies I ALWAYS start with the head or else I wont be able to add it later with out it looking off centered and what not. Then from there I work from the neck down following the torso and pelvis. Once you get the angle of that you can easily follow through with the limbs that way you dont get weird twised limbs that dont line up with your shoulders or hips and stuff.

Animals for me are down the same way head first. I normally try to stay away from buildings and such....straight lines are not my friend.

One thing I REALLY REALLY wanna work on is hair highlight and shading. I got the basics but I totally drool over Anime pix with really great hair!

ok nuff babble from moi

Raven00x
December 10th, 2003, 12:51 PM
Question: my pen doesn't write if I go over the pencil, is there a special pen for this, or a special pencil??? Any help will be appricated!

gel ink is pretty much dye in jello. it'll only stick to skin and paper, so if you're retracing over pencil, you'll want to use real ink. Personally, i use Pilot Precise pens, they come in 4 colors an 2 sizes, though for professional level illustration, you'll want to look into investing in rapidograph, which are a wee bit more expensive than pilots.

Jishia
December 10th, 2003, 01:08 PM
I go Eyes then head, then a jigsaw of body parts, and it's all ugly on paper untill its Inked. ofcourse I dont draw Body Skeletons, just wing the proportions.

KiTA
December 10th, 2003, 01:11 PM
I do a very light outlines using between 4h-8h pencils on drawing paper then use the 01-05 pens to outline it then do the shading.
then I scan the outlines, tweak it (using RGB mode) on the brightness/contrast using Adobe Photoshop 6, then color it with Opencanvas, and finish the rest back at Photoshop again.

I used to try using 6H 5 MM lead, but if I was having trouble with something and erasing a lot, the hard lead would leave scratches, and later cuts, in the paper. (Even the very-thick paper I use.)

So I switched to HB lead recently (er, I think), and I've had a bit more luck with that. You do have to push lighter when drawing, however. I still have 3 or 4H in my 3MM pencil, so I do still have something for doing faint lines I want to get rid of later.

Kat
December 10th, 2003, 01:22 PM
Mmmm... #2 Pencil :P

I draw like I've seen the "comic book" artists draw. I make the shapes of the body. I start with the head, then torso, (i leave myself a space where the "shoulder" is because I draw that in with the upper arm) then i draw the pelvis, then the upper arms / shoulder, fore arms, hands, then the thighs, and knee / calves together, and feet. Just to get their positions and ratio's the way I want, then I fill in the details.

Ciarin
December 10th, 2003, 02:03 PM
I like mechanical pencils for precision, but for most sketches I use drawing pencils. I like to you the sides of the tips to gets broad lines and I like how I can use my sandpaper to make the shape of the tip how I want. It's tedious for me to shade or fill with a mech pencil.



...oh..and, "Put a little birdhouse in your soul"

Jete
December 10th, 2003, 02:38 PM
most of my work these days is for 3d and/or digital media, so--jeez...I dont think i've inked anything in ages.

ill usually start out with basic shapes in very light pencil, using a compass and ruler when necessary. I've found if you're building on straight lines and clear curves it helps to keep the entire peice together. it also helps to have concrete numbers with your proportions.
I keep a few references around at all times, both anatomical and pictures ive taken. they come in handy both for drawing and for the coloring later.
If im doing a character I think about the geography of the face and what the prominent aspects of it are--what sort of shape to the nose, what eye size and how far apart are they? sometimes I test a few out before sketching out for real.
making a very small version first for backgrounds really helps to nail down stuff like camera angles. so does stepping back so that you can see the whole picture, or drawing while standing up.

anyway, once the basic sketch is done, I go back over in pencil anything I think is too light. then I find a scanner and bring it in on 300dpi, so theres a lot of room to work in photoshop.
In photoshop, make the peice greyscale and I fiddle with levels and contrast/brightness until the paper is nice and white and the lines are black and clear. when playing with stuff like levels, I usually have to go clean up anything on the lines I dont want that was left from the scanner.

after that's done, I highlight just the lines, make a new layer, and alt-backspace on the new layer to fill in the lines with pure black. I set this layer to multipy and lock it, and turn off the original layer.
this keeps the lines there while I paint color in layers underneath, and I cant mess up the lines accidentally. Later, when things are colored, ill go back and tint the line areas to match the colors.

I make sure to "mask out" every part of the peice im going to be coloring with a basic color, each on a seperate layer. this is so I can select a part to work on quickly and easily. I also make sure to paint not only within the lines but under them, so that if needs be I can turn off that lines layer and not have blobbly outlines.

Using the mask layers to select if I need to, I start in with basic colors, then adding shadows and highlights with burn and dodge.
I've found, though, that general shadows look a lot better if you take a black or dark blue on a top layer, paint your shadows, and bring the opacity way down. You'll avoid the overburn everything-looks-cylindrical thing that often comes from using the burn tool too much.
never underestimate layer blends! they can do some very interesting looking things, and can completely change the look of your peice in an instant. There are a lot of really awesome brushes in photoshop 6 that in the right combos can make some nice effects.

if you're not sure about something, put it on a seperate layer.

--wow, that became more about photoshop than anything else...im sorry....

EDIT:
Materials used!
2Hb pencil
sharpener
acid-free white paper
someone's scanner
Photoshop, Flash, Maya, Whatever

Question though....why such a big deal about materials? You can use the most uber pencil in the world and I don't see how it will make your technique and the aesthetic quality of your picture any better.
The exception to this is inks for inking, since a bad ink or pen can ruin a good picture =(
For the record, I use Pigma micron 05 and windsor&Newton India Ink when I do.

Velenka
December 10th, 2003, 03:13 PM
My work is shoddy and done with a $1 Mech Pencil and Eraser, so most times I sell commision for almost Dirt.

For shame, Jishia! I still lurk at NS... your work is not shoddy! It is very well done :)

Jishia
December 10th, 2003, 11:43 PM
If you knew me in Reallife you could see my Paper, pre-inking it IS shoddy work. :wink:

Sure i'm maticulous and carefull even with the material I use but because the material is cheap I still consider it shoddy. :P

Velenka
December 11th, 2003, 01:16 AM
Question though....why such a big deal about materials? You can use the most uber pencil in the world and I don't see how it will make your technique and the aesthetic quality of your picture any better.
The exception to this is inks for inking, since a bad ink or pen can ruin a good picture =(
For the record, I use Pigma micron 05 and windsor&Newton India Ink when I do.

You're right :) Materials used does not automatically equal better technique. And I don't think people are talking about kinds of pencils because one is more "uber" than the other. Different hardness of pencil = different outcome. A really soft lead pencil (5B) will have an almost charchoal look to it, while a very hard lead pencil (a 8H for example) will produce VERY fine lines because the lead is so hard that it doesn't "smudge" off onto the paper as easily:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-6/216722/lips.jpg

The bottom lip sketch, I know it's hard to see, was done with a 5H pencil. The lead was so hard that it was leaving scratches on the paper, while the 5B pencil didn't even leave any indentation because it was so soft, even though it is much darker.

I don't think you can compare pencils as more "uber" than the other unless you were compairing brand X 5Bs to brand C 5Bs..

(And if anyone cares, I use the Faber-Castell 9000 Design Set :) )

Radical Edward
December 11th, 2003, 02:25 AM
Most of my best artwork is done in my notebook along ledgers and between lines, I think I've delevoped a new set of hyroglyphics in wich I write down notes through using doodles.

Jete
December 11th, 2003, 07:37 AM
aye, I wasn't meaning that...as much as a lot of these "materials" type threads pop up on comics and drawing-type boards, and it sort of seems that much of the time they are started by people thinking "ooh, if this great artist uses this pencil, maybe I will buy the pencil and use it and be a great artist!"

I do not underestimate the difference between mediums =) and if I misunderstood what was going on here, im sorry =)

FuzzyBear
December 11th, 2003, 08:35 AM
why such a big deal about materials?

Simple.
It doesn't change your skill at all, but it DOES let you focus almost solely on your creation, instead of how to make your tools cooperate while you create.

I know when I upgraded violins from the skylark i was working with (cheap asian-made mass produced brand. Think small town junior high orchestra grade) to the 200 year old austrian refurbish I play now, (see pic in other thread) I didn't have to concentrate as much on my bowing to avoid the horrid ear-piercing that results from a squeak or a stop.

It didn't change how well I play, but it did allow me to just PLAY instead of compensating. I can imagine that having and knowing how to use a plethora of varying pencils works the same way. Although honestly, you CAN do beautifully with cheap tools. Jacob Lawrence used 15 cent poster paints on brown paper, and my friend Garry (http://www.faire-folk.com/palidynart1.html)manages to draw quite well with whatever he has.

I love exchanging 'technical' information with other artists. I got a huge kick out of chatting and learning from other miniature painters (as in painters of miniature models. Think Warhammer or D&D pewter) when I did that for a living, but in the end, practice patience and persistence can produce art regardless of what tools you use.

(miniatures visible here (http://www.loonbeam.net/eqsoa/images/elfmini.bmp) and
here (http://www.loonbeam.net/eqsoa/images/greenknight.bmp) and
here (http://www.loonbeam.net/eqsoa/images/grailknight.bmp) )

Jishia
December 11th, 2003, 04:28 PM
Okay, so Materials arn't everything, I just want a good French Curve and a Pen then doesn't skip over Lead.

FuzzyBear
December 11th, 2003, 05:20 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but any direct feed liquid ink (that excludes ballpoint) pen, should do the trick.

Oh. and nice halo work on the sig. It really brings out the face and the eyes.

VirtualMisery
December 14th, 2003, 02:17 AM
Well, I've always found that materials DO make a difference, when I was still into art and starting to get serious about it...I noticed a huge difference in quality when I moved from cheap drugstore sketchbook paper to the smoother, higher quality Canson or Strathmore books...likewise, Prismacolors huge improvement over Crayolas. A good pen or marker produces a finer, cleaner line with less bleeding and more consistent color, a better colored pencil gives you brighter, richer colors with better laydown, a better paper doesn't snag or shred, so on. However, that said...good materials won't make a terrible artist into a Rembrandt, and a really good artist can make do with lesser quality and still produce something good. But it DOES make a difference, imo

As for what I worked with, I used to use mechanical pencils as well for basic sketching out, etc on normal drawing paper...then would use tracing paper to transfer super-light lines to Bristol or even just a clean sheet of regular paper...then that transferred version would get inked with whatever i had handy, a Micron or even a gel ink pen. If I was going to do colored pencil, though, I didn't bother with inking, just went right to work with the Berol Prismacolors. Sometimes I would do a picture start to finish on the same sheet, usually if I was doing all pencil, but most of the time I did the clean copy because it got rid of the many, many, MANY erase lines and smudges. I tended to draw dark and heavy, a habit that I had a hard time breaking myself of, and being left-handed I'm prone to smudgies.

Realmreaver
December 14th, 2003, 06:34 AM
sketch, correct, finalized, Ink it in..... I an't saying I am good one of my works are on the Gushell forums if they still have it the dragon's name is Apple.

wel his mother cursed him to be only 2 feet tall but hey for a mature wyrm he's a tough little cookie now =)

Dreleen
December 14th, 2003, 09:10 AM
SOMEONE! Gimme the lowdown on hair!

My hair is so-so but I want the secrets to high quiality anime hair!

Lines shades and highlights! If you know where I could snag some pointers

PLZ SHARE!

Thankies!

Chibikhoi
December 14th, 2003, 08:49 PM
Uhh...

I usually start of with proportion lines (i.e. ovals and circles representing arms and stuff. Only when drawing a person or animal of soem sort)

then fill in rest... I usually do eyes first then head.... then the rest...

What i erally hate is angle... can never seem to get it right.