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Keiran
December 14th, 2003, 03:06 PM
Well, this is about gaming, so I think it goes here...

World of Warcraft was shown at Gen Con in California, and someone was able to grab one of the devs and torture info out of them for about 5 hours. Read about it here. Gen Con Info (http://www.battle.net/forums/wow/thread.aspx?FN=wow-general&T=854379&P=1&ReplyCount=155#post854379)

Droolworthy material.

Dark Tyger
December 14th, 2003, 03:53 PM
Kinda figured they'd miss their Q4 goal for the beta. *cries* All sounds cool, though I just skimmed it for now. I'll read more in-depth later. The mention of rituals sounds interesting....

BlackMage
December 14th, 2003, 07:48 PM
This has once again turned the tide in my decision for whichc MMORPG to dream about.

Dark Tyger
December 14th, 2003, 08:30 PM
I've been dreaming about WoW for a looooong time now. I better get in on the Beta or I'm going to be marching to Irvine with torch and pitchfork in hand. :p

Keiran
December 14th, 2003, 08:40 PM
Heh, yeah... I would be writhing with envy at the same time that I'm hoping to make it into the next beta wave... Still, as soon as beta arrives, those not in it will at least have a lot more info about the game.

zanfell
December 15th, 2003, 01:54 AM
will from what that post saide souds like a lot of people will get to beta test at some time or another

i really hope WOW comes out good and is worth the waite but then again most blizard games are

Erling E.
December 15th, 2003, 03:00 AM
I think World of WarCraft will be the first serious EverQuest contender (ok, Dark Age of Camelot was, but let's exclude that from this little discussion).

Why? Because it's Blizzard. The company ooze of experience and quality. The game looks totally slick. It looks like an adventure game. Imagine! An adventure game! A MMORPG that dosn't bog you down with promises of ultra-realistic economies!

Yahoo! Adventure! The reason why I first started playing role-playing games!

Realmreaver
December 15th, 2003, 03:53 AM
Obi-WOW Kenobi you're my last hope.... It really is Star Wars is so close to actually being good now I am tired of waiting for the devs to pull their heads out of their butts... I tire of waiting...

Here's to Hoping WoW is gonna be worth it cause so far all the current ones out bores me..... tho SWG is very close to not being a drudgery I seriously doubt the devs care anymore to even try.

Woody
December 15th, 2003, 10:15 AM
Well, I think Final Fantasy (because of it's MUCH broader market) IS EverQuest's first serious contender.

Now, I guess the word contender must have a bit more of a meaning to it. So, if by contender you mean a game that matches the number of players playing the game, then yeah FFXI is already there... or very close. And, WoW will likely be the 2nd.

But, if by contender you mean a game that is actually going to take accounts AWAY from EQ... I don't think there ever will be one. The only game that jeopardizes EQ is EQ. The decisions that are made by the higher ups will have an infinitely more devastating effect on EQ than any other game will ever have on it.

Not to indicate that I know any more than the rest of you, but well, I might. And where some stuff on the horizon makes me giggle with glee, other stuff on the horizon makes me want to start looking for a new game. Let's just hope THOSE things never go live.

EQGuy17286
December 15th, 2003, 10:20 AM
Dunno on FFXI, depends on how folks adapt. If you thought the vision made some parts of your EQ life hell, FFXI is just getting warmed up.

FFXI is a solid, pretty, and mostly fun game. But, you better bring friends or be adept at making new ones quickly, from a narrow pool of those within a few levels of you or your going to be bored senseless fast.

Dark Tyger
December 15th, 2003, 10:58 AM
Why? Because it's Blizzard. The company ooze of experience and quality.

As I've said before, it's kinda funny to read comments like this after hanging out in, say, a Diablo newsgroup for a while. There are regs there who talk as though Blizzard is run by a pack of drooling morons. However, it seems almost anywhere outside of a Blizzard game-dedicated forum, the majority thinks that Blizzard is one of the brightest companies out there.

To me, it just illustrates the "fad" of bashing the producers of popular games on their own "turf".

Lenardo
December 15th, 2003, 12:17 PM
i think WoW will take accounts from EQ...

how many is the question

ffxi took a small amount (50k or so) from eq,

wow imo could potentially take a few hundred thousand- IF it is good enough.

it definately will take from the other mmog's

Velenka
December 15th, 2003, 12:18 PM
Lenardo--- where did you get that number of 50k users from EQ, just curious?

Kat
December 15th, 2003, 12:31 PM
Well the track record so far is that no game has taken users away from EQ in any number that hurts EQ. Plus EQ is almost always adding new users so that the levels of current users rarely fluctuate very much.

Shaokai
December 15th, 2003, 01:19 PM
Blizzard does have a decade of experience writing games of great caliber.

However, they have never made an MMORPG before. It is true, WoW is visually spectacular, and has great game play. The only thing I am waiting to see is if they can do the server side code to support thousands of players. I am hoping that they clear these issues up in beta.


WoW has the potential to take players away from EQ. Lets face it, people are reaching the proverbial "endgame" of EQ now. There are players out there that have seen it all, fought it all, and quested it all to their hearts content. These players will be looking to move on to bigger and better things. Guilds like FoH that have been a corner stone in everquest for several years are planning to move to WoW already.

I just hope that their beta, and release goes smoothly. If anyone can pull off a smooth release, its Blizzard.

Realmreaver
December 15th, 2003, 01:39 PM
As long as they don't jump the gun like SWG it should be good ..... SWG with next patch will be where it should have been when it was first RELEASED... sigh... My hopes ride on WoW now cause likt aht one guy said about FFXI if you can't play enough to keep up with your friends or good at making new ones fast yer pooched in FFXI.

Dark Tyger
December 15th, 2003, 04:31 PM
Doubt they will. Like the post in the link said, WoW's game engine is in better shape NOW than many games have been several months AFTER release...

Dark Tyger
December 15th, 2003, 04:34 PM
Shao, on server load, that's what seems to be their intent in throwing as many as the server can handle at it right off the bat, then upping the number as soon as they get the handling of that number stable and smooth. Sounds like they want to stress test during every phase of the beta, which sounds like a great idea to me.

And...god I hope I manage to avoid whatever game world FoH ends up in in WoW. :(

Dragonel
December 15th, 2003, 10:58 PM
I'm really inclined to agree with Woody, but I'd apply his statement to all MMOGs (well MMORPGs, though I hate that acronym).

With monthly fees and 'character building', an MMOG represents an investment of both time and money. If you spend a month or two building a character and enjoy them, you probably aren't just going to toss them aside until something happens to make you stop enjoying them. Perhaps they nerf something. Perhaps you find no in-game support for your character type at your level, perhaps you simply find your experience requirements to be intollerable. Regardless, I don't know that I've ever heard of a player who'se invested more than a month or two in an MMOG just tossing it aside for the next shiny bauble, because these games thrive on giving their players a sense of accomplishment, and few players give up the rewards they've earned so that they can try and earn rewards elsewhere.

There is another aspect to contender, though. It's not just 'how many players do you have' and 'how many players will you steal,' but 'how many players will you prevent from buying into this game?'

When someone decides they want to play an MMOG, they'll go to their local retailer and probably see EQ's latest "all-in-one", DAoCs answer to that, as well as Planetside and Final Fantasy and maybe a couple of the second stringers like AO and UO. Which one they pick up will be a result of which one they've heard the best things about, which one they expect will appeal most to them, and which one just looks neatest on the back of the box. Once they've picked one they think they'll like, they probably won't return it, and probably won't pick up another game afterwards (though they might return to a previous game they swore off for the above stated reasons).

At this point, it's probably pretty safe to say that EQ never ever looks neatest on the back of the box (except, perhaps, next to DAoC, which has comprable graphics, though it's emphasis on PvP is something EQ can't claim). So all EQ has going for it in attracting new players is that, to put it simply, it's everquest. When you buy it, you know you're buying the father of the genre. You've probably known someone who'se played it and loved it (though you might well know people who've hated it, as well, there are a lot of them out there), and you'll know you're buying into a long-standing community.

I think, though, all it takes to defeat a new-player attraction like that is the ability to reasonably assure new players that your game will be as good as everquest, and carry through on that for a reasonable amount of time. Most of my gamer friends are keeping up-to-the-minute with WoW simply because it's put out by blizzard- Their past experiences with that company have sold them on its reliability, just as SoE (and previously Verant) used their track record with EQ to sell themselves to new players.

I guess that's about it... No one is going to "hurt" EQ's established customer base except for EQ themselves, but anyone with enough startup capital and a good head on their shoulders can cut them off from new business.

The trouble, as I see it, is that because MMOGs are an ongoing experience, EQ will hurt its established customer base whether it changes or not. If it doesn't change, players will eventually get bored (Oh, yippy, another zone to raid?). If they *do* change, then they'll invariably alienate some players. After this, the process repeats, with no changes making the players who weren't alienated bored, and changes alienating players who liked the initial changes.

The goal of the MMOG- To create a single videogame that people will play forever, is an impossible dream, so long as technology continues to improve, and people keep inovating on pre-existing ideas (particularly in software design). Extend the timeline long enough, and *someone* will find a way to do what you do better. I'm actually surprised to see that a lot of the posters here are upset when people say "EQ is dying soon..." Personally, I'm shocked and fascinated that it's still so vibrantly alive... That fact alone makes me want to play again. No game, logically, should have this much draw after it's been around for, what, almost a decade?

SoE has performed a weird sort of alchemy here.

Erling E.
December 15th, 2003, 11:31 PM
As I've said before, it's kinda funny to read comments like this after hanging out in, say, a Diablo newsgroup for a while. There are regs there who talk as though Blizzard is run by a pack of drooling morons. However, it seems almost anywhere outside of a Blizzard game-dedicated forum, the majority thinks that Blizzard is one of the brightest companies out there.

Personally, I don't think Diablo is a reflection on Blizzard's experience and creativity. I can't say I care much for ARPGSs (action role-playing games).

Anyway, when I say World of WarCraft is a EverQuest contender, I speak on a personal level. I believe World of WarCraft is a game that is going to pull me in just as much as EverQuest did.

Dark Tyger
December 16th, 2003, 10:50 AM
Only used the Diablo group as an example. The same applies to the forums for any of their games. Heck, in general, the forums/newsgroups for ANY game are usually thick with people flaming and slamming its producers. It's just proof that people like to gripe, and that it's popular to gripe about those who make popular games. :P I mean, yeah, often the complaints are valid, but people go way overboard with them.

Zarithar
December 21st, 2003, 03:07 PM
Personally... I DO think that WoW will have an effect on EQ's numbers. I know of entire guilds on my server who plan on migrating to WoW en masse. I'm sure many will keep their EQ accounts active... at least at first, but if WoW is as good as it seems to be, I don't think those EQ accounts will stay active for long.

Dark Tyger
December 21st, 2003, 03:17 PM
With the pricing they're shooting at for WoW subscriptions, I don't think it'll be too impractical for people to keep accounts for both games, either.