PDA

View Full Version : How did I miss THIS?



Woody
December 31st, 2003, 03:59 AM
Allakhazam's has taken over control of the Lucy database.

Apparently this happened in November, and I managed to miss it.

I don't want to say too much, as I know I'll get carried away and say much more than I should. But, I will let you know that my initial response was "oh no".

Varyl
December 31st, 2003, 04:01 AM
I personally like the change as it will be quite nice once they integrate the lucy database with the already extensive alla database, it's already in the works

GuladanVZ
December 31st, 2003, 04:16 AM
So far, it's been good. I have nothing bad to say about it, and I use lucy about a lot of times a day.

Nosferatu
December 31st, 2003, 05:21 AM
Allakhazam has been using Lucy for the spell database ON Allakhazam for quite some time. Not only was it a better format, but I rarely used Lucy because of the ease of use.

I'm not a premium member on Alla (nor anywhere - the $$ is just not there to spend on something like that), but as long as he has it so you can get basic information I'll keep advising people to go there.

I foresee nothing but good things from this merger.

Naelaen
December 31st, 2003, 07:02 AM
Lucy had an evil colour scheme too :)

I use Allakhazams all the time, and I think their system is fair, whereby it does help to have a premium membership, but if you're like me and spend enough money just playing the game, you can still get useful information about things, although for the full lowdown you would need premium membership.

Kalthanan
December 31st, 2003, 08:34 AM
Maintaining Lucy was a lot of work, and bandwidth.... 'bandwidth' and 'free' don't like to be in the same sentence...

I actually expected Lucy to just close its doors and make the tools available to the public. Alla taking it over will more than likely be a Good Thing(TM).

xenophon10k
December 31st, 2003, 09:23 AM
As long as yo uhave a pop up blocker, Ala is ok, otherwise it is the devil.

I used to love having to clear 1-2 popups everytime I clicked on anything there.

Catila Amano
December 31st, 2003, 11:21 AM
One trick to blocking popups without using pop-up blockers is to make an entry in your HOSTS file that points certain domains to 127.0.0.1 (which is a loopback IP address that points to your own computer). I have 676 domain entries in my HOSTS file that point to my own computer which renders many popups impotent (*snicker*).

As for Alla taking over Lucy, I have mixed feelings about it. On the good side, it's finally being updated again. There was a span of about 4 months where there were no new items added and very few spell updates. On the bad side is that they took away the advanced search capabilities from those who don't pay. :(

KiTA
December 31st, 2003, 11:32 AM
One trick to blocking popups without using pop-up blockers is to make an entry in your HOSTS file that points certain domains to 127.0.0.1 (which is a loopback IP address that points to your own computer). I have 676 domain entries in my HOSTS file that point to my own computer which renders many popups impotent (*snicker*).


And me, I just use mozilla, and click one button. Bam, no more popups.

Naelaen
December 31st, 2003, 11:34 AM
On the bad side is that they took away the advanced search capabilities from those who don't pay.

Better than losing the whole lot though :)

As for popups, I just use the popup blocker that comes with the google toolbar (http://www.google.com)

Kheera
December 31st, 2003, 12:30 PM
My understanding is that the guy who was in charge of Lucy lost interest in paying to maintain a site he no longer had interest in, and that unless someone else bought it from him and then paid to maintain it, that it would go away entirely. Not sure how much money all that entails, but given the quality of the site and the popularity (ie work gone into developing and maintaining the software and database through EQ patches, and the bandwidth from usage) doubt it was terribly cheap. So unless someone else were willing to shell out the cash and keep shelling it out to keep it totally free, it would've gone away entirely (as I understand it at least).

I've generally liked Allakhazam and I do have a premium membership there as I liked the advanced features. I used their regular services for nearly a year before that, without paying a cent; they're still available, and enhanced with Lucy data now also. The rates aren't even going up with the new stuff that acquiring Lucy brought to their services. Obviously some don't feel the same (/laugh) but this doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. I use EQTraders also -- a free site but sounds a bit stressful for the operators! I do donate there though no memberships needed, to help maintain their site and sanity.

Woody
December 31st, 2003, 01:59 PM
I use Allakhazam for the fashion guide, equipment lookup on questable items, mob info etc.

I just don't want to see certain features get blocked in order to convince people to buy a premium account.

My "uh oh" has less to do with Allakhazam's and more to do with the state of the entire EQ community though.

Spiritual is leaving EQDruids, and that site is being sold to a "company". Which, unless I miss my guess, means Yantis and MySuperSales. EQBeastlord has already been sold to MySuperSales. Of course there's also monkly business. And believe it or not PlayerAuctions has MySuperSales plastered across the top of their site. RPGExpert as well I think.

I'm just worried about what's next.

Jhovial
December 31st, 2003, 02:18 PM
Yeah us beastlords arent too happy about it. But seems like those of us that don't want anything to do with Yantis are moving back to Ezboards. If you want to see our new home (though wear some shades the colors will kill you) go here:
http://pub140.ezboard.com/beqbeastlord

PS:
RPGExpert and PlayerAuctions has for a long time had something in coherts with Yantis. Not sure of their agreement though.

Saethori
December 31st, 2003, 02:27 PM
That kinda proves my point about SOE really not caring that much about the selling of accounts, because you know they could stop it without too much effort.. the fact that Yantis is running around in their own game makes it hard not to spot.

EZBoard isn't much of a condolence.
With all this happening, 2004 might not bode well.

Hey, wait a second... Why's it raining exploding frogs?

Dark Tyger
December 31st, 2003, 02:36 PM
EQBeastlord has already been sold to MySuperSales.

I was rather pissed to find that one out this morning myself. Oaga gave no indication of financial troubles being bad enough that he was considering it. He sold on Sunday, and just this morning got around to telling us about it. The least he could have done is polled whether the posters would rather see it sold or shut down. Personally, I would have rather seen it closed down than sold to Yantis.

There's an EZBoard alternative that some of the mods set up on their own to get away from Yantis, but I try to avoid EZBoard whenever possible. Seems I'm stuck without a BST community for now. :(

Mordican
December 31st, 2003, 02:46 PM
Well so much for Lucy being the place to go for spell info. They were right 99.95% of the time... Alla is barely right half the time unless you pay for it. So much for Lucy

Serresrelic
December 31st, 2003, 02:55 PM
I've never really liked Allakhazam, although probably for different reasons than most people.

I can't stand their site design. *shivers*. It's probably not that bad to most people, but having to deal with website design all the time, for me that website does so many "no-no's" it makes me cringe every time I look at it.

Kheera
December 31st, 2003, 03:04 PM
Allakhazam is player-submitted data, where Lucy is packet sniffer I think, reads data directly from EQ files. So Lucy is correct data though limited, Allakhazam is richer content but can be faulty (when you find an error submit it to make it better!) It's a good match, actually; fills in what each was missing. Allakhazam was using some Lucy data previously, but better integration and more data now.

Kivuli
December 31st, 2003, 03:05 PM
Yeah, I just found out about Yantis buying EQbeastlord this morning too. Problem is, my eyes hurt looking at the EZboard version of the forums.

I have a webserver, I wonder if I could finangle phpbb onto it...? /ponders

Tipop
December 31st, 2003, 03:27 PM
As I understand it, Lucy isn't a packet sniffer. It simply parses the SpellData file that we all download. In theory the program that does the parsing could be turned into a downloadable utility that people could then use locally.

However it does it, though, Lucy has always been an excellent resource. When I heard that Allakazam bought it, I was afraid it would go to the dogs, but so far there has been no discernable change, at least as far as I can tell.

As for EQBeastlord... I am an admin there, and I was very disturbed to hear Oaga had sold the board to Yantis. My first instinct was to quit, but I've decided to wait and see. We've been given assurances that little will change... no popups, no annoying banners except on the front page (which can be skipped, if desired.)

Dark Tyger
December 31st, 2003, 03:31 PM
It's not a matter of whether or not anything will change that bugs me. The simple fact that Yantis owns it is enough to drive me away.

Tipop
December 31st, 2003, 03:37 PM
That bugs me too, but I've worked hard on building the community there, and we won't be able to make it work on EZBoard. Remember, we were originally on EZBoard, and we simply couldn't afford the outrageous bandwidth charges.

Toktuk
December 31st, 2003, 03:40 PM
As I understand it, Lucy isn't a packet sniffer. It simply parses the SpellData file that we all download. In theory the program that does the parsing could be turned into a downloadable utility that people could then use locally.

Lucy's uses a packet sniffer that is similar to Magelo's, but very few people run it. You can download it from this page (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/downloads.html).

-Tok

Invictas
December 31st, 2003, 03:54 PM
when you find an error submit it to make it better

I used to submit all the info I could to that site and then one day they decided once their database was full enough to warrent a pay site they blocked me from getting info after I had given so much.

I don't mind paying for premium services as long as the people charging are up front about it and start it that way.

Saethori
December 31st, 2003, 04:18 PM
I don't care about item stats, spell data, or anything like that..

I use Lucy for one thing and one thing only. To find out color/textures on armor.

I hate looking like a rainbow or wearing weird-looking armors...

FuzzyBear
December 31st, 2003, 04:20 PM
I like my allakhazam's membership. There are a few features there that are worth the $15 or $30 or whatever i'm paying these days, a year.

I don't necessarily understand why it's such a big deal if Yen-tis (sic) pays for hosting on EQ community sites though. I can't imagine he honestly makes that much off of it, but, well, if he wants to foot the bill for others in the community, so be it. If he starts going beyond banner ads and tries to establish a stranglehold, I might have a stronger opinion.

I think Allakhazam's is being a little gung-ho about the whole thing (and if anyone can explain this 'feature' that is the Lucy Item Collector, I'd appreciate it. After about 10 minutes, I just gave up, as I couldn't determine how it was supposed to update to the site) but I'd rather have this than have the Lucy database gone entirely.

I dearly hope that the recent trend in site and board buyouts/promotional deals isn't a monopoly-esque attempt to put hotels on every site within reach and wait for the other players to land on your property, but I guess I see a big difference between "All your site are belong to us" and "benefits of membership".

I'm partial based on my experiences, but in the end, aside from my questions, everything else is just how I feel.

(edit -- my spelling R gud)

Kivuli
December 31st, 2003, 04:45 PM
That's true, Tipop, I remember that. Still...I may play around with phpbb and see if I can get it running on my server. It could be an option for aw hile at least.

Oneiromancer
December 31st, 2003, 04:52 PM
(and if anyone can explain this 'feature' that is the Lucy Item Collector, I'd appreciate it. After about 10 minutes, I just gave up, as I couldn't determine how it was supposed to update to the site)

The Item Collector runs in the background while you are playing EQ. Assuming the options are set correctly (which isn't necessarily intuitive, at least the newest version finally has a readme file), the IC will check items you are wearing and those you view (and others, not sure how it reads them all) and update the master Lucy file if it is different than what is currently there. I believe that it tries to update the master Lucy file about 20 seconds after you finish zoning. The corrections will be attributed to whatever name you tell it to use. Also, if you have an Allakhazam premium membership, it will automatically update your profile there, including new things like augments. It's kinda neat, and doesn't seem to slow things down at all as far as I can tell.

The biggest problems with getting it to work seem to be selecting your network device. For me the first one was the correct one so it worked just fine. There is some help available on the Lucy or Allakhazam forums. I also noticed that if you start the program while EQ is already running it won't work...you need to do it before EQ starts.

For what it's worth I decided to try the premium service of Allakhazam too...not sure yet whether it was totally worth it or not, although it's really not that much money so I'm okay with the neat Equipment Updater and being able to use the more advanced searches.

Game on,

The Oneiromancer

lymlym
December 31st, 2003, 04:53 PM
I missed this piece of news... I asked my guild about it and they, more or less, said "oh that's old new"

well it's NEW to me! =\

Dark Tyger
December 31st, 2003, 04:57 PM
I used to submit all the info I could to that site and then one day they decided once their database was full enough to warrent a pay site they blocked me from getting info after I had given so much.

You talking about Alla's here? Because every single bit of info available through the pay service is available without it on Alla's. Difference is, if you pay a damn cheap fee, you get to browse without banners/pop-ups and you get more in-depth search features.

Jishia
December 31st, 2003, 05:01 PM
EQBeastlord has already been sold to MySuperSales.

I was rather pissed to find that one out this morning myself. Oaga gave no indication of financial troubles being bad enough that he was considering it. He sold on Sunday, and just this morning got around to telling us about it. The least he could have done is polled whether the posters would rather see it sold or shut down. Personally, I would have rather seen it closed down than sold to Yantis.

There's an EZBoard alternative that some of the mods set up on their own to get away from Yantis, but I try to avoid EZBoard whenever possible. Seems I'm stuck without a BST community for now. :(

My Main is a Beastlord and my Alts are a Warrior and Bard.. and frankly what Oaga did made me SICK, the people on the boards are awesome and if he had asked us, or started a collection we most likely would have helped, now I will boycot EqBeastlord and never return as it now belongs to Yantis.

Dark Tyger
December 31st, 2003, 07:27 PM
Yeah, that's the other part that bugs me. He gave no indication of how bad the situation was. Rather than ask the community his boards formed for help and let them know things were in pretty bad shape, he sold out. There's been a paypal button on the main page for a while, but he never made mention of running short on operating costs.

All I'm saying is he should have come to US before turning to satan and selling his soul.

(As for the question about what's so bad about Yantis buying the boards: He's sleeze, he's borderline criminal. He's not buying these boards to do a service to the community, he's buying them to try to give himself a reputation as a "savior" of EQ communities and boost his business. It's a business move, that's all.)

Frodric
December 31st, 2003, 11:26 PM
Poor guy may simply have burned out. Its hard to guess what else may have been going on in the background. He may have been thinking about getting out for a while now. Sitting there doing the admin and whatever with a nice potential check from Yantis may have been more than enough to tilt him over the edge.

Invictas
January 1st, 2004, 09:13 AM
Didn't seem like it was all available. Was trying to use a a search and inside the quest it wouldnt allow me to see part of the quest. Said it was a premium feature only...Looked down in the messages though and got the info from players posting.


Ahh, was the location of the person in PoK that sold the tanaan quills. Not all of the information is available to you as a regular member and a premium member.

Kivuli
January 1st, 2004, 08:36 PM
Just as an update, the core beastlord community has moved to http://beastlords.demonshouse.net

Woody
January 2nd, 2004, 06:27 AM
Well, unfortunately for me and my work, the image I did for EQDruids was included in the site assets that were sold.

So, technically, Yantis owns/controls some of my artwork. **shakes his head**

And there's not much I can do about it.
**sighs**

Tsu
January 2nd, 2004, 06:49 AM
I'm sorry if this doesn't belong here, but on the subject of eqdruids being sold to Yantis how does this affect /gu merchandise being sold through eqdruids store?

Dark Tyger
January 2nd, 2004, 10:23 AM
Didn't seem like it was all available. Was trying to use a a search and inside the quest it wouldnt allow me to see part of the quest. Said it was a premium feature only...Looked down in the messages though and got the info from players posting.

Some of the automatic info display is part of the premium services. For example, displaying the recipe to create a tradeskill item on the same page as the item's description. The information isn't unavailable if you don't pay, you just have to search the recipe seperately from the "product" details. Paying just makes the information more convenient.

Kudane
January 2nd, 2004, 11:15 AM
Not to throw stones, but Ogga may have not been in financial trouble. Money is sadly a powerful motivator. I know from experience that when you have a site that is doing well or is popular someone else may want to try and profit from it.

There was a point I was offered $20,000 for my site (eqinterface.com.) I of course turned this down. But don't kid yourself, I discussed the pro's and con's before I turned it down, 20k is nothing to sneeze at. But, finally decided that I liked what I am doing, and if anyone was going to eventually make money from my domain(s) it would be Dolby and I. Sooo we are gambling on the future. (footnote: we had a second offer a month later for $35,000.. again turned it down)

I don't know what Yantis might have offered Ogga for the site, but I will never falt Ogga for taking it.. He did what he needed to do. As we all must, we have to each follow our own paths.

I am sure a new beastlord community will turn up, there is always room for more than one.. just as monkly buisness evolved a new site after its purchase.


/bow

Lenardo
January 2nd, 2004, 01:02 PM
about a a year and a half ago or so yantis tried to buy allakhazams.

he offered i think it was around 100k for it. was turned down flat, makes you kinda wonder how much allakhazam is making off of the site.


besides yantis's my supersales and playerauctions there are several other companies that do the exact same thing.

castersrealm has IGE as a sponser...

for monkly-business. frankly i can count on my fingers 2 things he has done in the year and a few months that he has had the ownership

1- the banner ad (i negotiated the dropping of the messageboard link in exchange for letting him have the banner)
2- the rpgexpert.com articles column.

other than those two things he has left monkly-business completely and utterly alone.

Dark Tyger
January 2nd, 2004, 01:15 PM
It's not a matter of what he does and doesn't change. It's a matter of not wanting to support the dirtbag in any way. And going to a site that he owns is a form of support for him. (I note, by the way, you don't count his arbitrary deletion of any posts that express a disapproving opinion of the type of business he runs, maturely stated or not).

Lenardo
January 2nd, 2004, 02:38 PM
dark tyger except for the first DAY he took over yantis has NEVER deleted a post on the messageboard. the messageboard he does not touch.

when he took over and he started deleting, we said WOOaaah wait a minute.

he doesn't touch the monkly-business messageboards at all, i won't let him mess it up. it worked for us.

Woody
January 2nd, 2004, 03:36 PM
Lenardo, isn't that when you took over the News updates on the front of Monkly Business too?

Because THAT has been good for the site.

---

Side Note commentary:
GU Comics is not a site that will EVER get a buy out offer as it is dependant on my ability to draw and make people laugh; and, once I'm gone, it wouldn't have the same flavor. It would cease to be GU.

Lenardo
January 2nd, 2004, 08:41 PM
yep pretty much...shrug just worked for us i guess. i try hard for the news sometimes irl interferes alot but i try to keep everyone uptodate with the major news...got some Ultima x news that i am waiting for it to go live before posting...

not sure if it's because i am a softy/too nice or what but, the monks like me - hate yantis, but like me :)


grumble damn unstable servers(not everquest)....hits play....ARRRGGGHH...

wife sick - in bed, son didn't take a nap - in bed., len playing online games all night...priceless

Kudane
January 3rd, 2004, 01:36 AM
castersrealm has IGE as a sponser...

There is a huge difference...

a Sponsor pays to advertise on a set agreement

an Owner can damn well do what ever he wants..

EQInterface.com took on IGE as a ad sponsor, but IGE has no control over what we do on a day to day basis as long as we stick to the agreed advertising contract.

The fact that Yantis ever deleted a post means he has access to do it again if he feels the need too.

I agree with woody that you have been good for Monkly Buisness, just wanted to clear up some apples to oranges comparission you had going.

/bow

Lenardo
January 5th, 2004, 11:46 AM
heh ige emailed me the other day about me changing to them.

the problem i have is i have no control over the website besides the news - zadkiel gave all the software/webpages.etc and database to Yantis thus even if i wanted to switch i couldn't- course even if i switched people would be up in arms...

Gilant
January 5th, 2004, 01:02 PM
Yantis/mysupersales bought EQShaman.com a while ago as well - it had just been handed over to a new maintainer and was getting a much need overhaul when it happened. AFAIK none of the in progress work has been finished. The site is now hopelessly out of date.

THANKFULLY, The Shaman's Crucible (http://forums.interealms.com/shaman/) forums are still an invaluable resource for Shaman. [hmm, speaking of that I think I missed the annual fund drive, need to donate!]

Woody
January 5th, 2004, 01:40 PM
GU got an affiliation proposal from IGE as well. And, quite frankly, I'm considering it.

I've made it well known in the past that I don't care about the buying and selling of plat, equipment, characters, etc. as arguments about "server economics" ring trivial to my ear. When an economical shift affects everyone, then the effect is inconsequential. The only people that seem to fuss are the ones that like selling their phat l3wt for half a million plat.

Now, having said this, you should realize that I would be happier if SOE itself adopted a system of real world cash for plat/items. I doubt that will happen. But then again... Smedley is money hungry. So, who knows?

The difference, I feel, between MySuperSales and IGE however is in their business practices. Despite their role in the community, and the community's typical response, IGE seems to be pretty well respected. And, I haven't seen news bit after news bit about that company using plat hacks, item dupes, etc. MySuperSales on the other hand... **rolls his eyes**

The only thing that has stopped me thus far has been the community response. I know my more vocal fans don't like it. But, I knew they wouldn't necessarily approve of Game Guide Online either.

GU is my job. And I seem to be having less and less time to do commissions right now. I'd be lying if I said the potential financial boost isn't enticing. **shrugs** But, I have a hard time not catering to the reader minority that makes their opinions heard here.

I wonder if some of you guys are willing to seperate "business" from "hobby", if you could scroll past a banner that you don't approve of to see the strip. **shrugs again** That is MY delimna.

What I can tell you though is this: If the safehouse had to let GU go for some reason, I would NOT be able to keep GU afloat on what it currently brings in. I would be forced to find alternate revenue streams or the comic would close.

So everyone ponder over that fact. And, consider the cost of hosting a LARGE site on the net, try not to judge us too hard, and remember that we're just trying to stay UP in the face of bandwidth and hosting charges, or in my case trying to make ends meet.

John Dyne
January 5th, 2004, 02:20 PM
I don't think the vast majority of us readers/posters would be too concerned if it were just a banner and not something more invasive, like pop-ups or somesuch thing.

The same would go if there were a sticky in the forums. People might glance at it, but so long as it isn't shoved in their faces, I don't think they'd mind. Having someone constantly post threads about it would be different, and having a flash ad (Not the banner, but the kind that pop up in the middle of the screen and you have to click a certain hotspot to close them) would be different, I'd assume.

But I'm just one voice. *shrug* But I doubt the rational people of GU would give a flip either way if it were just a banner.

And yeah. IGE seems respectable enough for what they do. Yantis, on the other hand, seems to do nothing more but give the EQ community a headache. I'd never consider using their services myself (Flat ass broke, wouldn't want to spend real money on in game items, Goody Two Shoes Reason here), but of course there'd be people who visited who'd want to.

Better than MySuperSales either way. But hey. I'd figure we'd be reasonable enough to take a banner to the side of the comic or above it. GU's your job, and what you do with it is really your choice. To paraphrase an old saying, 'You can please some of the people all of the time, and you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time.'

Woody
January 5th, 2004, 02:47 PM
Well, here are some things you should know...

The forums, are not currently equipped to handle banners, and I have no inclination to add banners to them.

And, as much as I hate unnecessary posting, there is NO WAY I would ever agree to an "ad post".

And finally. There will never be tower ads on GU. I would NOT agree to an ad that competes with the artwork. The ad space at the top of GU or maybe a little one under the right side links is the only thing that's amenable.

Rhiamon Fatesealer
January 5th, 2004, 05:10 PM
I thought you already had a banner ad on the main page? Or posted something awhile back saying that you were going to host ads for IGE or Game Guide Online or something. Maybe not...

Anyways, I agree with John. If you need to agree to host a non-obnoxious ad for IGE in order to make ends meet (or even if you do make ends meet, and you just wanna be a bit more comfortable), I don't think any of us can begrudge you that. I don't know your financial situation, so I don't think that I have any right to start running off at the mouth about how you're "being greedy" or "selling out".

That being said... will I continue to come to the site if there is one or two banner ads on it? Yes. Will I continue to come to it if I bombarded with pop-up ads... most likely.. no.

The nice thing about these forums is that you can hear our feedback on stuff like this. But then again, you could set up a poll on the main page to get a better feel for how the majority of GU readers feel. You've said many times that the majority of your readers dont come to the forums, so a poll on your main page would be a lot more effective than one here in the forums. Just a thought to help you decide your dilemna.

Woody
January 5th, 2004, 05:12 PM
Think I already answered that Rhia:
"But, I knew they wouldn't necessarily approve of Game Guide Online either. "

---

The way I see it... it's opt in. You don't HAVE to click the banner. And if you do, there's no judgement. It's your decision.

There will NOT be pop up ads. I can't stand pop ups either. I'd try micropayments before I resorted to pop ups.

The question about ads though, is whether I support it. I would never put an ad up to something I didn't support. And, I don't necessarily "support" item sales. But, I don't necessarily see a problem with it either.

The same can be said of Game Guides. I, personally, wouldn't buy one. But, at the same time, I look up quest info on Allakhazam's. What's the difference? Not very much really.

Rhiamon Fatesealer
January 5th, 2004, 05:15 PM
Is it that link to buy SWG? Just wondering, cause that was the only ad besides commissions and the GU Store that I could find. And if IGE's ad is like that one... I don't see how anyone could have a problem with it.

Kudane
January 5th, 2004, 05:32 PM
So everyone ponder over that fact. And, consider the cost of hosting a LARGE site on the net, try not to judge us too hard, and remember that we're just trying to stay UP in the face of bandwidth and hosting charges, or in my case trying to make ends meet.

/bow.....

Ditto....

glad your here Woody..

Woody
January 5th, 2004, 05:43 PM
Yeah... the SWG link was supposed to be in there rotating with other games, books, etc, that I have an interest in. Guess I need to take the SWG link out now, since I'm boycotting their game.

Nosferatu
January 6th, 2004, 01:41 AM
Woody, I think my position is fairly obvious when it comes to anything in violation of the EULA. I consider Yantis a criminal for what he does.

However, he's not the only one who offers items/characters for money.

While I completely find it wrong, I do understand the need for income for a board. Everlore had to go to UGO. UGO advertises for varying item/character selling locations, and there's nothing I (or any moderator) can do.

I know you won't put up with total BS from IGE, and I don't expect you'd get much anyway. So, I would not stop coming to your site because of it.

IMO, IGE is a far cry from Yantis.

I liken them to prostitutes. IGE is upper class high society, while Yantis is sleazing on a corner for a quarter if need be. While it's illegal, if I was going to use one's services, I'd want to visit the upper class houses.

Erling E.
January 6th, 2004, 02:00 AM
Take a look at Project Entropia. They use real world money in-game. Pretty nifty, actually. The game is pretty horrible, though.

Woody
January 6th, 2004, 11:20 PM
Wow... http://www.themis-group.com/view_news.phtml?id=23

WriterChris
January 6th, 2004, 11:38 PM
ditto on the wow, that is a very eye popping article.


Breech Gate'Crasher
65th Feral Lord (93 AA)
'Wraith' guild on Quellios a Everquest server

Laston
January 6th, 2004, 11:57 PM
wow thats kinda sad actually, but then again we donīt have that mcuh phat lewt in DAoC (some uber items ofc but they are quite hard to get mainly cause you looking about 100+ groups to get it and your chance of getting the item at all is very slim)

Woody
January 7th, 2004, 12:35 AM
I don't understand the "sad" but... **shrugs**

KyrosKrane
January 7th, 2004, 02:11 AM
Woody, didn't you used to have a banner add for GGO at one point? I don't see that any more. I assume their contract ran out or something?

I've written elsewhere about my opinions on buying and selling game cash. Buying and selling game accounts, however, is a different story. There are substantial effects on the other players when either happens. At the moment, I'm inclined to believe that cash selling is less harmful than account selling. I'm open to arguments from either side on this case; I just don't have enough data to form a sensible opinion yet.

Which brings up an interesting point. Does anyone know of a post or message board or Web page in which the plat/account dealers justify or rationalize their actions? I don't mean marketing-speak; I've seen a few of those on their Web sites. I mean an actual discussion or debate about why their actions are good/bad for the game in general, for other players, and specifically for the person buying or selling.

Nolequen
January 7th, 2004, 02:40 AM
Latest news seems to be that the necro boards have also gone the way of Yantis. Not a necro, so I have no idea which boards, but this was posted by a necro over at the eqdruids site.

Oh, and sorry about the new owners of your bit of eqdruids artwork, Woody.

Nolequen

Woody
January 7th, 2004, 03:03 AM
I guess, since I've already said it twice in this thread... a third time isn't going to kill me. This time I'll say it clearly and in bold text in the hopes that someone will actually see it and READ it:

Game Guides Online used to have a banner ad on GU comics

I really don't understand why people ask that. Who cares? Why is it any different from going and looking up quest info on Allakhazams? **shakes his head**

---

There doesn't need to be a discussion on the topic of selling in game items for real world cash. The simple fact is... if there is a market, someone will fill it. That's really all the justification that's required.

WriterChris
January 7th, 2004, 04:18 AM
I had a really long post all ready to go and then triggered in on the "There doesn't need to be a discussion" so I retracted it. I think you hit the nail on the head Woody with your assessment of, "If there is a market, someone will fill it."

Cantatus
January 7th, 2004, 05:14 AM
IGE's services are provided from the company's state-of-the-art operations center in Kowloon Bay, Hong Kong.

Well, that certainly is a nice way of putting sweatshop (http://www.juliandibbell.com/playmoney/2003_11_01_playmoney_archive.html#1069106484858511 72)!

Woody
January 7th, 2004, 05:20 AM
**rolls his eyes**

People are being compensated for playing the game and generating plat. If they are not happy with the level of compensation, then they should pursue alternative employment.

That's a nice way of me putting "your point is moot".