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DarKatan
January 16th, 2004, 08:29 AM
What I was getting at for the Solo vs group Poll, is the problem at many are forced to rely on being able to group and even for LDoN many times I simply cannot get one started due to lack of players or just plain not enough time.
If your like me and only really have 2-3 hours to play every other day and thats only in evening or early morning, then a problem seems to arise, while my 50th (almost 51! :))Druid can solo in the short time given to him...if I attempted to do so with my Wizard, Magician, Enchanter, Warrior, Cleric, and Ranger...it would be slightly different as:

Wizard: Yes could solo, but without a KEI(which made it far easier for just soloing a caster at lower levels, let alone how much it helped my tradeskills) it would simply be, ok grab a mob; snare, root, nuke, nuke, root, nuke, lesser nuke...and theres 3%(maybe) sit and med for 15 minutes and repeat % per hour? 12% xp gain per hour

Enchanter/cleric: I group with both of these anyway, as thats basically the design of the class.

Warrior/Ranger: I can try to solo, just one problem well maybe not same for Ranger...but Warrior; pull, slash, kick, /rude, swear, pause and make coffee, slash, kick, /smack, sit down and wait 20 minutes...ah good plan and thats light blue stuff!

I do enjoy grouping but my qualm is more in the lack of positive soloing, ecspecially when one cant do a Raid, LDoN, or go find a pickup group because ye only have like 30 minutes to play.

So Idea!

Instanced Solo Dungeons
howabout an expansion for the soloers?
Low loot, a few items, maybe augs, no LDoN points and maybe have sidequests to improve faction with Wayfarer's to get better prices. But the idea is...15-20% bonus on xp while inside, howabout this:

<> Lasts 1 hour
<> While sitting zone has you act as if under the effects of 20-40 Regeneration and Clarity, and 41-65 Chloro and KEI.
<> Mobs are placed at your estimated level capability so as to get good experience at least 1% from each and not be overwhelmed.
<> Mobs are not built with the idea of being fought by groups...in other words they dont have 3k hp and AC of 1200 and are doubling for 120's on a level 35.

Basically less time to play, or just not wanting to go "pick-up" then this would improve the situation.

few names off top of my head for zones:
Garden of Marr

War Hall of Zek

Lost Eye Peaks

Hero's Bane

Thanks for listening!

Rhiamon Fatesealer
January 16th, 2004, 08:38 AM
Just a quick note... that's not how wizards solo. Wizards quad kite just like druids. Drink a sow potion, AE snare and then AE nukage. At 29, you might not have gotten your first AE snare (I don't remember the level on it), but it will be coming soon, and then you can solo much better.

Raven00x
January 16th, 2004, 09:46 AM
ae snare=bonds of force at 29 *mutters obscenities about goblin wizards who loooove using that bob-forsaken spell...*
also a staff of temperate flux (instant clicky 5cold/fire debuff...great for getting your victim's attention on the run)

combine the two with a quad of sucker mobs and bada bing, soloing starts picking up the pace a little. only problem is that it's still boring, lonely, and generally sucky (in my opinion).

Rhiamon Fatesealer
January 16th, 2004, 12:27 PM
I never really soloed either. I wasn't much good at it for one thing, I never even tried to solo until I was in my 50s. The few times I have tried quadding, it 1. hasn't gone well, and 2. I get bored/lonely in no time. I know it can be done rather well though, as I had several wizzie friends that soloed all the time.

Foehammer
January 16th, 2004, 01:28 PM
That's a good idea for solo dungeons, DarKatan, but I doubt any existing MMO will make those kinds of serious modifications to their engines, and databases. Also, I think that many upcoming games wont go that route because there's a common idea among game developers that in an MMO setting, everyone wants to group all the time. Which is of course totally untrue.

Acorrding to their offcial websites, games like WoW and UXO are making "single player games in a MMO environment." UXO has quests where the strength of mobs is addusted for the number of PCs in a group. They've also said that quests will spawn private zones, and that all quests can be done solo. But for normal mobs, I think we'll still need to rely on a group for the best exp.

In DAoC every class can solo. Granted, some classes are "made" for groups, but they all can at least kill blue mobs with little risk. But at higher levels it's impossible to gain any ground on a level soloing.

On a side note, Middle Earth Online claims it's going to have a system in place for the casual gamer. Defined as playing "2-8 hours a week." They say it's supposed to be something like you play normally, but if you're under a certain number of play hours for a week, the game will "boost" your exp upward slightly. Or so they say. :)

Dark Tyger
January 16th, 2004, 01:29 PM
Instanced solo dungeons aren't likely to happen. The reason grouping is pushed in LDoN instanced dungeons is because the number of instanced dungeons is limited. For EQ LDoN, each instance exists at all times, getting flagged with an adventure to get in just allows you enter the instance you're flagged for and populates it. Requiring grouping to get in cuts down on the number of instances that there'll be demand for. If they allowed solo adventures, there'd be demand for too many instances. Remember, each instance that needs to exist eats up server space, and that's not a trivial commodity.

There are better, more efficient ways of doing dungeon instancing, but I don't think the framework of EQs engine and such allow for it. The game would have to be rebuilt, I think.

Luckton
January 16th, 2004, 01:41 PM
Just a quick reminder that AO has done instanced "dungeons" for both single and group players since it was launched, know as missions...and it is quite fun.

It is possible that EQ can't do it because of hardware limitations..but I'm willing to bet it's more because of the devs idea of "group play is teh win!". A shame, really...I'd be more than happy to play EQ again if I could do solo dungeons in EQ like I can in AO.

But alas...

Naelaen
January 16th, 2004, 04:22 PM
I don't like the idea of instanced solo dungeons. It'd make the game too easy solo and you'd miss out on all the interaction of grouping etc.

Finding a place to solo is one thing, having a place tailored for you is quite another.

DarKatan
January 16th, 2004, 07:44 PM
Thank you for your responses, my idea isnt to generate a whole new path to high levels without the interaction of grouping. Its more to create a way for those of us with very little time to just be able to find a good place to get some experience without having to be plagued by others trying to do the same thing. One of my biggest problems has always been those who are only out for themselves when soloing. High level Druids and Wizards who quad in CS for example when 2-3 other people are hunting the same creature. Or Bards that I have seen charm kiting 4-5 things in DL and not caring if they run somebody over.
Being free of the morons for a half hour (there could even be time limits and only being able to do the instanced solo twice per day) and able to just get some xp.

Luckton
January 16th, 2004, 09:11 PM
I don't like the idea of instanced solo dungeons. It'd make the game too easy solo and you'd miss out on all the interaction of grouping etc.

Finding a place to solo is one thing, having a place tailored for you is quite another.

To each his/her own, I guess. I don't mind grouping from time to time, but to be "extremly encouraged" (read: forced) to group in order to advance is, well, dumb. As far as the instancing goes, what harm am I doing to you by creating my own little slice of hack-and-slash glory so I can get experiance, items, and coin that I can use later for when I would like to group with, say, you? :wink:

Nulien
January 17th, 2004, 05:00 AM
Warrior/Ranger: I can try to solo, just one problem well maybe not same for Ranger...but Warrior; pull, slash, kick, /rude, swear, pause and make coffee, slash, kick, /smack, sit down and wait 20 minutes...ah good plan and thats light blue stuff!

Have you tried fear-kiting animals as your ranger? Make sure you have Spirit of Wolf on, find a nice open space near a place where animals spawn, and pull one away from the rest... Snare it, and cast Panic Animal, and then start hacking away, and recast Panic Animal just before it wears off (doesn't take long to learn the timing for that). When you're at a high enough level to get KEI, you can almost do this without stopping to take breaks at all, and even without KEI, you can kill several before you have to med.

Tenolein
January 17th, 2004, 09:10 AM
I agree with Naelaen, but I see where Luckton is comming from. The main reason why they 'force' you to group eventually is to get you ready for the high end of the game. You know, the one with the Planes and such.. I wouldn't know anything about the Planes myself, as my main is a lvl 40 ranger, but the fact is the Planes is apart of the high end, and when you raid them, you need to know your roles and whatnot.

Think of it this way, if your a warrior that's solo'd for the most part of the game, and you go to a raid in the Planes.. You don't have much group/raid experience. How are you to know when/what to pull, if your the puller. Even if your not, how do you know if you are NOT the puller? Or main assist?

I believe that's why they 'force' us to group. Don't get me wrong, soloing is a nice, and sometimes fun way to get away from others, but grouping/raiding is where the REAL experience is.

Luckton
January 17th, 2004, 05:43 PM
I agree with Naelaen, but I see where Luckton is comming from. The main reason why they 'force' you to group eventually is to get you ready for the high end of the game. You know, the one with the Planes and such.. I wouldn't know anything about the Planes myself, as my main is a lvl 40 ranger, but the fact is the Planes is apart of the high end, and when you raid them, you need to know your roles and whatnot.

Think of it this way, if your a warrior that's solo'd for the most part of the game, and you go to a raid in the Planes.. You don't have much group/raid experience. How are you to know when/what to pull, if your the puller. Even if your not, how do you know if you are NOT the puller? Or main assist?

I believe that's why they 'force' us to group. Don't get me wrong, soloing is a nice, and sometimes fun way to get away from others, but grouping/raiding is where the REAL experience is.

That's the other thing that miffs me about the current range of MMOs out there...that I'm in some way supposed to play the game in a certain fashion and way that some developer dictates from his GM desk...

That's probably why WoW and the other casual MMOs comming down the pipe are going to so be teh win :D.

The question is, if WoW does show that casual/easier gaming is better that the current hardcore grind, will the current MMOs change their ways to keep up and compete?

Naelaen
January 18th, 2004, 05:04 AM
Put it this way, what's the point of playing a MMOG when all you're going to do is solo?

Might as well be playing a single player game :mrgreen:

Ok, that's a little unfair, but you see my point? You have a whole world to explore, people to meet and adventure with, and you want to have dungeons you can lock yourself away in and level. (Ok ok, you're doing that in real life, but you're supposed to make up for that in game :D)

I can only play just over 2 days worth of EQ a week (due to being at university the rest of it). Couple that with the fact that I'm at least 5 hours ahead of US players means that I am almost always forced to solo in the mornings. I get around this normally by soloing low level alts. I really would just like to get a group and level my higher characters though.

I believe EQ2 is going to be tailored for the more casual gamer as well. I can't remember the actual wording though.

demongoat
January 18th, 2004, 08:21 PM
I liked the way Ao did the missions.. my mp had problems finding a group a lot of the time, of course the mp is it's own group :) but it got boring killing for an hour-hour 1/2 and dying 3-4 times =/

Foehammer
January 19th, 2004, 06:08 AM
Put it this way, what's the point of playing a MMOG when all you're going to do is solo?

Might as well be playing a single player game :mrgreen:

Ok, that's a little unfair, but you see my point? You have a whole world to explore, people to meet and adventure with, and you want to have dungeons you can lock yourself away in and level.

I agree for the most part, but it is nice to have something to fall back on if you're getting frustrated with bad groups. In EQ if I had several bad groups, I'd usually just log for the night. It would have been nice if I could have just soloed and still gotten decent exp. Soloing in most MMO's is just a waste of time since you gain hardly any exp at all.

Naelaen
January 19th, 2004, 07:13 AM
Yeah I'd agree with that, like yesterday I soloed Drakkel Dire wolves in GD just to push me over the level 40 barrier. Stupid Frost giants though :mrgreen:

From what I've read, the EQ2 team feels your pain also :)