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Woody
January 19th, 2004, 04:13 AM
The examples below are all from ONE day of play. It was one of the best days for me, and simultaneously, one of the worst days for me, in my eq history.

I went on an LDoN adventure to hit 57. The group played out like so: Warrior, Shaman, Bard, Shadow Knight, Cleric, Monk.

That's about as well balance an LDoN group as you can assemble in my opinion. You got the bard for pull, lull, crowd control & mana battery; the cleric to heal and back up pacify; Shaman to slow, alacrity, root, & auxilary heal; SK to snare, dot, auxilary tank, & off tank if necessary; and, the Monk for raw DPS.

It should have been an easy group. Collect 24, lightening fast. Done in 45 minutes... right?

Wrong.

The bard was the worst I have ever seen. Couldn't pull for crap, failed to mez reliably. It was pitiful. One character completely ruined our group. We had to find a way to pull without the bard. Note also: The bard bitched and complained about us yelling at him, which none of us did, even after he got the cleric killed <-- on the first multipull (set us back 20 minutes).

And, when I told him to twist popcorn mez to "stun" caster mobs, he told me not to tell him how to play his character (despite the fact that he was letting cleric mobs complete heal themselves 3 and 4 times in a row). He cursed and complained and sputtered non stop until he got the cleric killed again, and we all (the REST of the group) started playing like he wasn't even there. He freakin tanked for most of the rest of the adventure. **sighs**

He did manage to successfully mez a couple of multi-pulls... but then again, *I* THE WARRIOR was having to freakin pull (switched back and forth between the monk and I, with the cleric running up to pacify.)... so SOMEONE had to be crowd control.

He left as soon as we lost the adventure (with 2 more to collect) - Jackass.

Anyway... that was just the LDoN adventure, but you can see how one d00dish jackass can screw up everything.

---

Earlier that same day we went to hate and one ub3r w1zz13, who tries to take over EVERY raid I've been on with her, started her same pattern... making demands, pulling without permission, and being fairly uncommunicative. Now, the Raid Leader/My Guild Leader reigned her back in, so she wasn't the problem. But, not to worry, we had a r0gu3 to make up for her.

You see, he went afk without letting any of us know. We got to where we were going to fight... and THEN got a message from him asking where we were. Then, he got himself killed, of course. We all had to backtrack and start over again. This set us back a good 20 to 30 minutes. (Note: Same guy FELL ASLEEP during our Hole Raid the night before. **grumbles** There were wizards about, asking for a tl out is NOT a bad thing if you're that tired.) Anyway, he decided to leave when he realized his epic bit wasn't up. **rolls his eyes** Not much of a group player eh?

Well, after we got my Epic piece (thank you), and failed get the SK and Chanter drops (stupid stingy mobs), we decided to go do trials in PoJ. Now, we should have been able to do the execution trial easy as cake... but for some odd reason the ub3r w1zz13 decided to use her cleric instead. (Note: we already had a cleric in the group for the trial. We actually NEEDED the ub3r w1zz13 for dps.) Failed twice, then someone beat te execution trial before we got to try again (which was also when the person realized we didn't need 2 clerics; we NEEDED the ub3r w1zz13).

So, instead of waiting the 30 minutes to try again, everyone pretty much got fed up and decided to leave. I was 4% away from, so we were going to just exp grind for a bit to ding me. For some odd reason the ub3r w1zz13 was in charge of this too (don't ask me how), and decided we'd go to Valor, despite the fact that half our group was below 55 and wasn't flagged (meaning they couldn't go in). Well, ub3r w1zz13 also filled the group without consulting with my Guid Leader (who was in the group), forcing him to leave to free up a slot. Needless to say, we didn't do Valor.

Everyone was SOOO frustrated, they didn't even want to gather to LDoN together, which is rare for our guild. It's very close knit and easy going. And THAT is how I ended up in the LDoN adventure in the first example. I dinged 57, but it was overshadowed by the idiot excuse for a bard.

So you can see, in one day, 3 individual players made the game miserable for 3 different groups.

Feel free to share your horror stories.

Binaman
January 19th, 2004, 05:01 AM
I have far to many horror stories to ever share about the 7th hammer, not many at all with Mith Marr though =D

Satrah
January 19th, 2004, 05:16 AM
I just got back from the game....and read this...you asked and you shall recieve.

*growls*

I was playing my warrior, and grouped with an 3nch4nter, and necro and a druid. Guess which one we had problems with?

I'm pulling one to two mobs at a time. The druid is resettng his hotkeys to do the heals and do EVERYTHING else. (He had been doing rooting and rotting the night before) The necro is doing his thing...the 3nch4nter say "Pull more...it's fun when you do that!!!" I pull four.

He slowly mezzes. The necro is trying his best to help and the druid is getting heal agro, while I am keeping on top of the one targetted. Sadly, the necro dots a mezzed mob. The mob thankfully agros on me.

The 3nch4nter starts b*tching about the fact we ALL need to make assist hotkeys ands such. Goes on ranting on how we all need to assist or else the next time the necro dots something and it agros on me...I will die. *sigh* Huge drama...the whole works.

Meanwhile I'm keeping the mobs happy and the druid is keeping me alive and the necro is doing his best. We all live.

A while later the necro leaves. The 3nch4nter insults the necro some. Then...he makes the same stupid request he did last time "Pull more!"

I do....but by accident. I aimed and shot my arrow and expected two. Instead DL drops three more in the pathing of the other two and now the group has five. (remember it's only three people now.)

I say "Oh Sh*t RUN!! got 5!!!"

Druid says "Oh F**k me!!" and tries to bolt.

3nch4nter decided to play hero...and starts mezzing. End result we have a cluster. Druid and I are already heading to get into KC to zone out agro. The 3nch4nter says he did a mind wipe on all five and to come back. The druid and I look at each other with caution and slowly head back. Things look empty.

So we start working on exp again. Lo...the "mind wiped" mobs come back. Not all at once. A few at a time.

But with each "mind wiped" mob, there is a friend or two that it brings along to help. Both the druid and I die. I even went to zone out agro...nothing worked, but our deaths.

Now I understand heal agro and taunt agro. I am not totally sure what the 3nch4nter did, but the supposed "mind wipe" seemed to have it's limits that he didn't tell us about. But his need for more mobs and what he was skilled at handling were two things that didn't seem to match.

*shakes her head* *sighes* All I know is after dying...and trying to make sure the mob stayed on me, not the druid, I was about to pitch the 3nch4nter out a 36 story window.

And while this was all going on...he still pissed and moaned about the necro's mistakes. The necro wasn't even logged on!!

To top it all off, after I died I headed back to the PoK FV stone. I was running through the tunnels when one of the wood elven guards inside decided to kill me. The druid ported up to sow me and volenteered to get my corpse. I only asked him to keep the guards distracted. So he helped. The 3nch4nter stayed in DL and went to a different ruin and kept asking us "Are you on your way back yet?" almost as insistantly as a child asking "Are we there yet?" over and over.

I get my corpse out of the tunnels and then get my other corpse out of DL. Meanwhile the 3nch4nter is /oocing about him LFG, while still grouped with us. The druid and I had not planned to leave, but after hearing three of those /oocs we politely let him know we had to go.

We made nice excuses and left our own ways. The druid said if I needed a healer look him up, and we could do our own group without THAT 3nch4nter. I told him I'll take him up on the offer...and if he needed a meatshield I would answer.

*shakes her head*

*sighes*

People that really need to study their class. *nods*

Thanks Woody for a place to vent. I've ran into semi stupid things.... Tonight took the cake. Sounds like you got the same thing =/

Oh...and no...I didn't go asking for a ress. I know I could probably make up for the exp lost by those two deaths with patience and time. Anyways I figure if there are no clerics in the zone...or any friends that are clerics...that I shouldn't go bothering and pestering them...they too are busy with their EQ time as well. Seems unfair to ask...if you cannot donate for their time.

Satrah

Satrah
January 19th, 2004, 05:24 AM
P.S. Congrats on your epic piece Woody! Glad you got something good out of the day.

YuriPup
January 19th, 2004, 05:38 AM
Ouch! Yeah that sounds like a day to make you really frustrated with EQ.

Just to mention, I find that our Incite line is actally a really handy pulling tool, requiring no ammo or juggling of slots, and a surprisingly small "splash" area for hitting. More than once I have called inc 2, only to hava the non-targeted mob not care what I just said to his buddy.

And I have to say I had really missed pulling too, and we are not half bad at it again.

Foehammer
January 19th, 2004, 06:02 AM
Sorry to hear it was a rough day in the virtual world, Woody. Those are the worst days. I'm not sticking up for the bard, but at least he tried. From what you said he was still being an ass, but I've grouped with people who didn't even know they could mez/heal/taunt. Kind of like those idiot or ebay comics you did awhile back. That's why I prefure to solo unless I'm in a guild group. I hate getting people like that in pick-ups.

Enchanter
January 19th, 2004, 06:09 AM
does anyone want to create a SL forum in the special thread? As a warning for the rest of us.

lymlym
January 19th, 2004, 07:54 AM
hmmm bad bard... I wonder if he left the server onto your server.

Shrineerune
January 19th, 2004, 08:04 AM
I'm an extremely low end player, and I like it that way. I play very casually (a few hours a month), and I always solo. Well, almost always. I've made exceptions three times.

The first was when I was playing a cleric, and I grouped with a rogue. That was actually fun.

The second was when I was a warrior, and I grouped with a cleric...which should have been fun. It wasn't. I essentially power leveled a cleric that had to be reminded to heal me.

The third time was very recently. I was playing a rogue and I grouped with a druid. It was the most unfortunate thing I've experienced in game..hah. When we grouped I warned THEM that I had always been a solo player, and that I may not understand how to best play my character in a group so if they had any suggestions during our time together I was open to hearing and acting on them. They didn't feel the need to warn ME, however, and we ended up ping ponging between zones while the druid decided to run in random directions and pull more mobs. They even got lost while running, but thankfully they found about ten mobs to help them figure out which way to run.

You'd think a druid would root or snare a mob I would pull to camp...but no. Instead they would run over and try to melee with it, with no magic involved and no heals happening.

At one point, their stupidity got me killed. It also got them killed. My only comment was, "So...I've been thinking. Which name do you like most? Larry? Moe? Curly?"

I made a very bad choice after that. They had made it back to the spot near our death first, and they said that if I consented them they'd drag my corpse. Okay. Cool. So, I did that. I think that I must be Moe. Curly managed to go in there and think camo would work when cast indoors against mobs that see through it. Curly died, but only after dragging my corpse "somewhere near water". It appears that when they realized that someone could see them, they responded by running in random directions again.

At this point I was more than done. I got to the scene of the crime and did a hide/sneak around a dangerous area and found my body. I drug it and looted. Then I went in and found Curly's corpse and drug it to the zone.

Curly asked if we could please group again.

Um, no.

My sympathies, Woody. I imagine it is much more frustrating when folks are high level.

Coffee
January 19th, 2004, 08:08 AM
I don't have any horror stories that compare to any of those...mostly because I try very hard to forget things like that.

Bad bards are all too common however. Reason being they are a complicated, difficult class to play to their full potential. Can fill almost any roll in a group if played properly, but...*shrug*

Filan Fyretracker
January 19th, 2004, 08:34 AM
trade the monk for a wiz hehe, last night i did a group with no cleric and no real healer just bard, pal, sk, then pure DPS(wiz wiz mag). could burn down a mob in seconds flat and move on, VoQ+bard ment rarely running low on ammo.

FuzzyBear
January 19th, 2004, 08:47 AM
I did an LDoN adventure in Mistmoore in my high 30's with an alt. Usually these are a piece of cake. We had a really well balanced group, including two tanks, an encanter and a cleric. The cleric is the group leader. He picks a collect adventure at the request of the wizard who said he'd degroup instantly if anything else was chosen. The cleric refuses to CH or even remedy. He only uses one heal spell. A group heal. Saying "Man I LOVE this freaking spell!!11!1oneone" every time he casts it. It heals everyone in the group, for a massive ammount of mana, and only heals them for about 100 points when it goes off. So he's constantly out of mana.
The enchanter is working her butt off, and the wizard, get this...REFUSES to nuke. NO spells at all. What's he doing? He's clicking Solist's Icy wand. over. and over. and over. It's a 38 point damage effect that's mana free. A wizard at level 39 can nuke for over 400 points in one spell, for reasonable mana cost. but no. not this wizard. That would require mana.
He thought it was reasonable apparently, because he could do 386 damage per /minute/.
He went on at length about his wily strategy whenever he was asked to nuke.
*shakes head*

Naelaen
January 19th, 2004, 08:53 AM
You shoulda said to the wizard "If you wanted 386 damage a minute, you should have played a necro".

*runs from angry necro masses*

Jishia
January 19th, 2004, 08:54 AM
Just a question.. why you didnt get a Beastlord? *snicker*

anyway, I WOULD have bitched at the Wizard, Rogue and Bard if you wouldn't have. jerkoffs have no reason to play Everquest if they plan on going into serious Raids and Adventures thinking they can whine and bicker all day long, maybe they just need to go back to Paludal.

Kheera
January 19th, 2004, 10:01 AM
On the "memory wipe" thing: enchanters and clerics get spells that give you a chance to cause the critter to forget what's happened to it (wipes the hate list). But yes -- only a chance. On critters not kos normally, you can tell when successful by /con and see if it's back to usual ... but in situations like this where they hate your guts anyway, 'bout the only way to tell for sure is to wait and see if it comes after you (or if you get a new aggro message from wandering too close: ("Oh hey memblur worked! Uh, mez it and do it again?"))

Some mezzes have chances of memblur built in. And, given time, you can recast memblur to increase chance that it'll work (takes time since there's a decent recast time). With 5? I wouldn't try memblurring except to try to minimize chanter risk on mez break -- keep 'em mezzed until ready to kill. Or if too low on mana... zone to lose aggro.

Wooleen Shadowraith
January 19th, 2004, 10:05 AM
Oh dear, im not EVEN going into one of my worst days..Lets just say I hit 36 so many times im shocked I didnt set a record.

Raven00x
January 19th, 2004, 10:14 AM
ooooh....horror stories...
Curiously enough, both these stories come from LDoN adventures; i don't really have any from non-ldon that meet this level of...pain.
---
It was a dark, stormy night when our story begins. It involves a hapless young Vah Shir warrior, a mere 30 seasons old, and a high elf cleric...
So-there i am, rujarkan dungeon. I have a pretty well balance group with warrior, ranger, cleric, necro and two other classes that i can't remember... we're doing pretty well on our slaughterfest, but i noticed a little problem-my hp was pretty low and didn't seem to be changing.
Well, that's what the group had a cleric for, right?
well...when the necro remarked to me about how low my hp was (and subsequently started using her necro heals...gnomish gnecro vampires-gotta love 'em), i started watching my combat spam.
Mustaang begins to cast a spell!
A_Orc00 has been smitten!
repeat until mob is dead.
Uh oh...that explains why she's complaining about not having any mana when i ask her to heal me.
oi vey...
Finally, i'm down to about 200 hp (from my normal 1500 or so) she realises it's time to heal me instead of banging on the mobs.
so she heals me.
WITH BANDAIDS.
because, she's got over 100 in bind wounds. (Go figure)
Cut to the end-cleric got sulky (it wasn't me binding and not healing! it was my little sister! *pout*), but i stayed alive because of necro and ranger heals. Moral of this tale of woe-never assume your cleric is compenent and possessing all their faculties.
----
This next tale of woe involves significantly older people. A rogue aged 56, and an enchanter aged 58.
Now, before i begin this tale, i should point out a few things about this bit-enchanter, i mean. First, she was a twink (100k twink! She proudly proclaimed), and she spent much of her time telling us how much her friends twinks cost("there's my friend the 500k cleric twink..oh, he's lfg" "yeah, well, we already *have* a cleric."), and she insisted on being the puller, and the looter, and made sure we all knew-she's really...really good.
well shit, with braggary like that how can you go wrong?
First room-her supreme pulling skills are essentially to pull the whole damn room and charm one. because, she can charm kite the whole place.
she died.
20 minutes later, we pulled and killed the two roamers while waiting for her to get back (don't rez me, i'm getting c5 from a friend), and she kept ordering us to kill more stuff..."well they're tightly packed in there, we can't pull them without killing ourselves, and frankly we're not suicidal." "I'll be a few minutes, pull more stuff" (yes, she said it after we explained why we were having a thumb-sitting competition)
Next room. turns out, she's quite charming, and is charming whatever she can, because she's so elite.
says we need the dps from charmed pet. we says we don't need the CR from a charmed pet.
Strangely enough, it goes well for about...3 pulls. she'd pull the whole room, put her pet onto a mob, and scream about how we weren't assisting the warrior (note that at no time did i say anything about mezzes flying. i saw maybe 2 mezzes the entire dungeon. how we survived, i cannot say)
Death number two, here.
last room that we went into-Goblins, huzzah!
she charges in, while the rest of us, battered, beaten, bloody and unhappy wait. she pulls the room and charms a goblin warrior thing. charm prompty broke and between the warriors beating her senseless and the goblin wizards introducing her to the finer side of ice comets, she died fast, but the rest of the group avoided most aggro and managed to get out in time to not die. it was strangely gratifying to watche her get the supreme smackdown that way...
death number 3.
"Aren't you guys coming back?"
/disband x 5
As a postscript to this tale, i ran off with the warrior to get a new group-the shaman and wizard sat and did some language training to vent a little frustration, and the beastlord just hightailed it out.
In this new group with the warrior though...we had an interesting cleric. See, this cleric knew about CHeal (good) but...started all his cheals at 10% life.
Now, if we were in say, dreadlands, this would be fine, but we were 10 levels out of the DL range. with mobs that were hitting for up to 400 (hard adventure).
we died...it was painful...i hate everfrost.

Cheers!

Denero Creed
January 19th, 2004, 10:36 AM
I feel your pain. Stuff like that really annoys me. This may sound bad but I also meet a lot of good friends that way. When the one bad seed keeps screwing up I will always get a tell from someone else in the group /is this guy for real!?! and it goes from there.

I had a 56 monk ask me what regen was.

Enchanter
January 19th, 2004, 10:41 AM
was it an iksar? cause if it was that would be hilarious.

Naelaen
January 19th, 2004, 10:49 AM
I think the worst things come out in LDoN because of the inherant requirement to get the adventure done within the timelimit and how reliant you are on your fellow group members. Whilst it is often done very well most of us forget how a bad member, a critical member, can make everything collapse.

Takara
January 19th, 2004, 10:59 AM
My horror stories are the same as Woody's since... I was there for all of that except in the group for the PoJ trials. Since we were going to do it in 2 groups, I had to wait outside. *sighs pitifully* So I made brownies while I waited.

And I didn't get to level, nor did I get my epic peice (I'm the ShadowKnight)...

So yah, crap-tastic gaming weekend.

Woody
January 19th, 2004, 11:36 AM
You got your bits from the Hole the night before though... so the WHOLE weekend wasn't bad right?

Takara
January 19th, 2004, 12:06 PM
That's true... not a complete loss.

And the brownies were good.

Tadashya
January 19th, 2004, 12:14 PM
I group almost NEVER except with my own husband (SK and Shammy iz good group) for pretty much the above reasons.

so I gotta ask this question since I really havent grouped much. Is it bad to let such players 'accidently' die (I mean it cant take much if they are playing that bad anyway?) during these encounters so that you dont have to deal with them?

Aerinha
January 19th, 2004, 12:18 PM
I have a rogue alt in her 30's and have been hunting with her in Dawnshroud. I find that pickup groups can be great places to learn the possibilities of a different class, as unlike LDoN, where people try to form up "Ideal" groups(well, try anyhow), in Dawnshroud, you end up with whatever classes happen to be LFG that day, and you learn to be flexible.

At least that is my optimistic, rose colored glasses interpretation of it...

So, I am hunting in DSP at the Maiden's Eye Zone edge, and our group with a ranger, three beastlords, and me(rogue) is doing ok...but the ranger has to go, and with only the three BST and a rogue left, the adds are causing some heavy downtime. We are living, and getting exp, but when we hear a monk /ooc for a group we say, "come on over!"
He gets to us and asks, "Who is pulling?"
Our response, "You are." "You." "You're pulling."
His response, "Oh, nonononono...I don't have any HP. Monks are for DPS only!"
So, the three beastlords and the rogue look at each other and think, "Ok.......? I guess we really are old school..."

So the monk didn't pull...until...a high level druid friend of mine showed up to buff us, and he decided that NOW he could pull, and the monk proceeded to run out and aggro all the tribals at the rocks(we were killing slowly and carefully...no one in the group was THAT twinked...so there were about 6 tribals over there) without asking, without waiting for the druid to fully buff us, without inquiring as to the mana status of said druid....time to zone for all that manage to do so. I brought my cleric on for a bit to help the beastlords, and the monk decided to log off.

It was obvious to us that the monk had been leveled via the "Pincushion" method at some point in the past(druid damage sheild and regen).

funkydue
January 19th, 2004, 12:21 PM
I was in a group last night on FFXI and I am a thief. Well with sneak attack I am hitting for 60 ish (level 17) with my weapon skill I go for around 100. Well our tank I guess did not know how to provoke so when I hit the mob for 100 I got insane amounts of aggro and well I nearly died 7 times. Of course our white mage would get tons of aggro haveing to heal me so much and our white mage died a few times...I even told the guy like 10 times to provoke but no go. I left the group after I nearly died the 11 time. No sense in being with a tank that cant do his job.

DarkWyndre
January 19th, 2004, 12:48 PM
Oh Man,

Just remember you asked for the horror stories woody, heh. I was grouped in Valor at 58th level (now nearly 62, woot!) at the outer camp. I organized the group and planned to grind my way through into 59 as far as I could. So I've got a 62 warrior by the name of Yohdler, one of my best friend clerics, Syolaria, and then an assortment for the rest of the group, including a chanter.

I'm pulling non-stop as I'm a monk and we're doing fantastic and the chanter is doing an amazing job getting the mobs slowed. I compliment the chanter, and they're like "thanks" and all. Then she started telling us about herself in RL (And I'm still not sure this is true, but gonna repeat). She said she was 32yoa RL, and mildly retarted, just learned how to walk a couple months previous. Now, mind you, this person is putting on an EXHIBITION of how to play the chanter class, and typing about 80 WPM it seems, so we kinda just let that conversation die as we continued to kill.

Strange thing happened tho, after she said all that... mobs started aggroing her and she died like 4 times, each time knocking us out of fighting for a good 10 minutes to rezz and reset. Finally, I watched the battle spam to see the "A Razorfiend Subduer looks angry" messages, and didn't see any.

So I says to the warrior in group chat, "Hey yohdler, can you use your provoke line a bit more? Keep the mobs of the chanter so we don't keep having downtime"

He replied, "I don't taunt... ever"

That was it...

So I said, "Ok, but that's kind of your JOB in a group, is to taunt and take the damage, give the cleric one target to heal"

His reply?

"You're a monk, your job is to pull, not criticize, so STFU (he did not abbreviate)"

so I was like "Well, I'm criticizing, you need to taunt so the chanter doesn't keep dying."

His response? He left the group in mid kill... we kited the kill and replaced... but that's probably my worst horror story thus far.

Regards,
DarkWyndre

Dark Tyger
January 19th, 2004, 02:03 PM
It's been a while, so the details aren't totally clear to me, but here goes:

About a week after LDoN was live, my girlfriend and I were in a Rukarkian group, a Ranger as the main puller, her as commie looter. The only healer we had around was a shaman, but we figured he'd be able to handle it (despite the stereotypes about frogloks. *rolleyes* ). So, we go in, and the ranger starts pulling....FAST. He's bringing 3-4 at a time, but we're chewing through them alive. Well, it seems the ranger had no grasp on the concept of letting the healer keep some mana up. 45 minutes in, he was taking off down the hall immediately after one pull dropped, expecting us to follow him rather than pulling to us, and losing my girlfriend as she was looting the fallen corpses. The shaman was constantly near-death from canni just to keep enough mana to keep the tanks above 1/4 health. Shaman had asked for med breaks a couple times, which were ignored, and my GF was practically begging for them to let her catch up rather than disappearing down twisty halls and losing her constantly if they wanted her to loot.

Finally I spoke up telling him he needs to relax a bit, because he's losing people down the hall and people are constantly near-death. He came back with a snippy remark about how I should get used to it because all groups are like this.

My response was that every successful group I've been in wasn't led by someone too stupid to pay attention to the rest of the group when they say to slow down. Half a second later, "You have been removed from the group".

Wow, wasn't really surprised, I suppose. People don't like being told when they're being crazy. I made my way back to the exit, followed shortly by my girlfriend, who was carrying the loot from the adventure. The shaman showed up back at the wayfarer camp a little bit later, and we split coin with him, adding the ranger to our ignore list...

Some people don't get that just because nobody's died yet doesn't mean they're doing a good job. One bad pull with the healer's mana situation would have wiped the group completely. Faster doesn't always mean better, it usually only serves to increase the chance of disaster. :(

Dark Tyger
January 19th, 2004, 02:09 PM
This whole thread can be summed up in 3 words: "Idiot(s) or Ebay?" :D

Canlar - Xev
January 19th, 2004, 02:15 PM
Ah, a horror story...I have SO many (argh).

Just last night, I was playing my level 41 monk in an LDoN mission. The group consisted of me, a 38 enchanter, a 44 cleric, a 42 cleric, a 45 warrior and a 45 ranger. Just before we were to zone into the dungeon, the 42 cleric suddenly goes linkdead. Then the 44 cleric starts TALKING about kicking out the power cord in GROUPCHAT. Things like "No, please don't kick out the powercord!" and "Don't kick me offline!" and one final "NOOOOOO!!" then went linkdead. Mind you, he wasn't saying this to someone wherever he was in real life, he was saying it in GROUPCHAT. So with no healers, we have to quit the adventure and find a new cleric.

None are available, so I ask in guildchat if anybody has a 40ish cleric alt they'd be willing to play. One of my guildmates, a 61 warrior, says that he's not busy, a little bored, and has a level 44 cleric. COOL! Well, we meet up at the wayfarer camp, get grouped, add a second warrior (level 43) and get our mission. We were doing REALLY well, except for one thing...

The cleric. The cleric didn't seem to know how to avoid getting heal aggro repeatedly...and when that happened, the cleric didn't stand still so our tank could taunt, she started running in circles; At the time, she was the only one who still had SoW on, so it became very difficult to catch the mobs on her long enough to taunt them off.

The rest of us started wondering just what sort of cleric we'd wound up with in tells. I was especially boggled, because this was a cleric alt belonging to a level 61 WARRIOR; And it's rather hard to make it to high levels as a warrior without knowing how aggro works.

We start adapting our strategy to reduce the chances of this happening (mostly having the enchanter mez the mob off the cleric when the heal aggro happened) and this worked for a while, until the cleric started wanting to help the ranger pull, using her pacify spell.

Now, she wasn't the most adept pacifier I'd ever met; More than once, she, apparently unaware that mobs have an aggro range, walked right up to one to try to pacify it. She rushed into rooms without checking to see what was next to the door. When pacify got resisted, or things aggroed, we were back to her running in circles.

The tank finally got REALLY frustrated, and started telling her (in groupchat) to stop moving when she got aggro, so he, the ranger, the other warrior, or even me, the monk, could pull the mob off of her. She apparently ignored everything he said, because she kept doing it.

Finally, he gets fed up, and says, in groupchat, while she's running in circles around the group "STOP MOVING DAMMIT!"

She does stop, but immediately starts ranting in groupchat about how he has NO right to swear at her, how he must be polite to EVERYONE at all times no matter what, how she's leaving and if he doesn't apologize INSTANTLY she's going to put him on ignore, etc, etc, etc. So she disbands and gates out in mid-adventure, leaving us without a healer. We manage to pull a few more, but by then, our hp is too low for any more, so we leave too.

We won the adventure, but no thanks to this cleric. HOW does someone get a 44 cleric, a 61 warrior and sundry other alts without knowing how to manage aggro?

Personally, I'd have been using stronger language than one solitary "dammit" a lot earlier than the tank did. And the cleric, frankly, deserved something stronger than a polite request, since polite didn't work at all with her.

Cerrena
January 19th, 2004, 02:17 PM
My husband is a pretty good two boxer and between the two of us we have three accounts so when we want to group we show up with a druid, an enchanter and a warrior. Now the lack of a cleric scares off some people, but if we see someone LFG we will often pick them up. Now if they turn out to be a screaming idiot, we can always disband with some lame excuse about needing to go grocery shopping now. Then we log off, wait five minutes, move to a different zone and start again.

Alakandrius
January 19th, 2004, 02:56 PM
I've had TONS of horror stories from playing EQ... The most recent before my hiatus from the wonderful land of the Drinal was:
I decided to do a low level LDON group with some friends and guildmates, but we needed a puller so I got my paladin to lull... We decided to fill up the last spot in the group and the only person we could find was the rainbow colored ranger who happened to be...24 and dual wielding centi longswords. I generally have a dislike for the people who purposely dye their armor that way. But the dungeon started off smoothly, it was my first attempt at being the lull puller but I was managing okay, but the ranger decided to be in on the action by following my paladin around like a nervous little dog and on multiple occasions aggroing something while I was still lulling, but refused to sit back and way for the pull...

So after we failed the collection (big suprise right?) he complained then the druid, cleric, mage and shaman (guildmates) gated out and camped just to avoid this person suggesting a second LDON. But it was the classic, trying to take charge in everything, for example: He isn't hurt but everyone else is resting and whines that we need to keep pulling.

EvilIguana966
January 19th, 2004, 03:13 PM
*Bah youre right. *sigh* I can't even do it to be funny.

*attempt at humor self censored due to violation of rule 12*

Enchanter
January 19th, 2004, 03:17 PM
rule number 12, Iguana. rule number 12.

: sadly looks down with a sigh.

EvilIguana966
January 19th, 2004, 03:42 PM
I've never really been of fan of being reliant on others to have fun, due to the number of incompetant players out there, but it is, at times, unavoidable.

Since I don't play Real EQ* anymore, I'll try to share my horrors in Desert Combat (A Battlefield 1942 mod). Now first off, let me say this, If it can be done well by 1 person, theres no need to have another. One guy can communicate with himself better than even the best of teams. Since I am better than at least 95% of the DC players out there, I can get a lot of stuff done on my own, taking on multiple opponents from a less powerful position. But that doesnt mean I don't like to help my teammates. I help them out the best I can, providing escorrt, cover, support, repairs, healing, etc expecting nothing in return. The downside is though, the thing we call a "smacktard". It's sorta like a d00d. The Smacktard is the guy who can't play for crap, yet insists on getting into a helocopter, letting 5 other guys jump in, then nosediving it into the sea without a word to the passengers. He's the guy who jumps into the powerful vehicles, often using a humvee or some other vehicle as his means of transportation TO another vehicle, then proceeds (often killing others in the process) to drive away and waste his toy when somone with an ounce of skill could have made the team very happy.

See the people who permeate all levels of society, gaming or otherwise, are the "Me First" players. They are too thickheaded to take the advice of their fellows. Most of us don't mind noobs, as we were all noobs once. We mind the noobs who have a blatent disregard for gaining any sort of competance.

Now I am (presumably) done with live EQ, but I have found a curious little diversion in EQEmulator. It's fun to see the world without needing to climb the guild ranks. If I wanna solo Quarm, I can summon myself some uber gear and try it. It won't entertain as long as EQ, but its fun to be unwired from the interdependance that gives rise to smacktardism. So I can have a go at being the 10k hp uber tank, seeing that 90% of norrath I never did before, and soloing my dragons.

So anyway, today's vocabulary word to describe the dangerously inept is "Smacktard". It's so much more descriptive than d00d, which can mean oh so many things.

Dragonel
January 19th, 2004, 11:40 PM
The following is cut-and-pasted from the GuShell forums, I edited a little for the benefit of all you eq-types:

. . .

Where the heck are you people finding people who understand the concept of pulling?

I don't know which of my groups has been my favorite. I kind of liked the warrior who would say "I'll pull!" runs up to three tough linking (BAF/Social) mobs standing side by side, goes into attack stance, waits until he's got one (and, by extension, all three)'s attention, then, still in combat stance, start's backing towards the party with all three in tow.

He was an improvement over most of the teams I've found, who, in heavily populated zones, in which we're the only PCs, like to charge en-masse into a camp, and hope that things work out. How many players must die when a mob links, or when something pops on top of us, before they learn? One party averaged two deaths per member over about two hours who couldn't seem to figure out what was wrong. Not that there was really any way to explain pulling to them. Even the simple words "All of you, stay right here, I'll bring something back to us in two seconds" didn't prevent me from getting just the right mob in just the right position to pull him away, and turn around to find all three other people standing right behind me.

Oooh, then there was the 12th level warrior who let our target rip the poor little Tarutaru (squishy squishy caster race- Skin like butter) WHM to pieces. The little guy was an adequate tank for that battle, though, because we narrowly defeated the mob (after the taru died, of course). The warrior then apolagized to the WHM saying "I didn't have enough TP for a 'voke." (Provoke, similiar to a fighter's Taunt, is a timed skill in FFXI. TP refers to a "limit break" meter all classes use for "weapon skills" that they earn through combat skills- Timed skills and weapon skills, as you might expect, are completely independant of eachother)

I think it was that same day that we picked up a meatshield who asked, upon seeing the WHM at work "How do I get spells like that?"

. . .

But I just keep doing it to myself. Why? I couldn't tell you. I've met a couple of fun people in randomly assembled parties like this. I've even been able to help show parties like this how to really do some damage. Maybe doing this will eventually build, if not a "better" then at least a "less aggrevating" player community on Valefor. Or maybe it'll just give me an aneurism. Either way, it'll be an interesting ride.

Mondayn
January 20th, 2004, 01:00 AM
My method might be harsh. But if someone displeases me. With just cuase and much debate from my fellow group members I will happily kick them out and give them the trans of their location. However. I have bumped into one situation on my Ranger in BoT. Note my main is a wizard so i'm used to being asked for trans. It never bothers me at all as long as I'm not in some major rush to get back to where I was. And will never demand money at all (though i may tke it every now and then if the offer it). Well. on my ranger I ask, very kindly, the only wizard (which happens to be a gnome /shrug) in bot at the time if i could get a trans to my bind (this costs no components to cast). I tracked her down right at the 4-way entrance so i stood infront of her. She soon replies "Payment?" - I was expecting this. so I politely hand her 5pp even though no stone is consumed (even though if it were, it will only be a mere 1pp). She then laughs at me and cancels the trade, telling me to start walking. I was so stunned at this behaviour it bothered me. When i did /cry and started to walk off she sent me a tell again "You expect me to take time to do that for you?" oo i was mad. this char being an officer in her guild too. Greedy people suck =/ .

Gratz on 57 though woody ~ we all have irritating days but at least you got something great out of it.

DogEye
January 20th, 2004, 04:27 AM
Oh an idiot story? try this one (not a complate lost, just a lost cause) we get a group together and useing /lfg i told the leader there was a cleric in north ro looking but will only do the north ro dungon... every one was cool with it... well 5 mins in we were fine (though the cleric showed some lack of knowlage how to use HoT to avoid aggro) well he got aggro and died in the 5th pull (we where multi-pulling... don't think the cleric tried pacifying) well i think i got my heal off on him once. unfortionatly i didn't have the shammy HoT spell because i didn't have loy at the time(lol still need to get it) so the cleric died and well he said he was going to look for C3, which we were cool with untill we went like 15mins in WITH a BL that had the Beasty C, it was decent in a pinch. but 15 turned to 20mins and still no cleric, he was STILL trying to get a C3, we where telling him just come back and we'll manage... but he refused (i didn't know that the C3 was THAT addicting) finally i was fed up and told him to take his sweet time, it's NOT like, you know, we are on a timer... his reply was "up yours" and disbaned,(wasn't like he would come back any way) well he did, only to rez himself... i swear i should of trained him after i died 2x trying to be MH, you know sow would've been evil right there he was JUST sitting on those steps asking for it... so anyway i asked the guild if there was a cleric to rez, and sure enought our ranger guildie has an ex that had a cleric with a 96% rez stick on it =) so i called everyone back that hadn't completely looted there courpse for a 96% rez (which was me and a gnome) i was joking about gnome kabobs cause our cleric was a gnome (i didn't know we had another in the group) so i just told him i ate the useless gnomes and he didn't quilify for dinner party special but the cleric did. (when you can't stand them... eat them) I started a put groups before C campian for a couple of days after.

Naelaen
January 20th, 2004, 07:08 AM
this char being an officer in her guild too.

Until that line I hadn't suprised me that the gnome said no. Plenty of greedy people about, but guildmates should look out for each other.

Twyll Oathtaker
January 20th, 2004, 10:00 AM
Was playing with a SK in PoI the other nite who decided he should pull 3 mobs. He didn't aggro the other 2 he pulled them. Then pulled them through another group getting a few other their people killed then almost wiping our group. The wizard got aggro from chain nuking. I think the druid and I were the only 2 to make it out. Then the SK LD's himself so he could find a better group.

vildail
January 20th, 2004, 10:55 AM
One reason to play on a PvP server, "I'm sorry your too stupid too live, I have to kill you now... :twisted: "

Mordican
January 20th, 2004, 11:07 AM
Time for my most recent horror story... Rallos Zek... We were doing a joint raid with a guild to do a little back flagging. our guild is 1 kill from PoTime, the other is in it. Anyways we also were flagging someone who begged to come along... NEVER EVER AGAIN!!!

Rallos has this nasty little habit of porting people to various differnet zones... Some of the worst being Plane of sky, Kedge Keep, etc... all in front of nasty mobs. (Spirocs in posky that DT for example)

Anyways we go through the ring and spawn the real Rallos in his pit. We had to reform the raid because it got bugged on the AE TL out and some of the unflagged could not get in. The catch with Rallos is that anyone NOT in the raid gets this port. Well this pick up person was the only SK who had his harmshield up so they designated him to be the puller. Well he pulls out his bow and shoots Rallos... Problem was no one called the pull. We were not buffed and we were not in the raid... we had to retrive about 20 corpses from various zones all over the place. It really really sucked.

Binaman
January 20th, 2004, 11:59 AM
I must say I just had the best group experiance of my life these last three days. Over the last three days I was in Plane of Tatics with some level 65 people. They needed a shaman so I came along. I am now the proud owner of three pieces of Ornate chain armor! I really hope they need me again tonight I still need the legs, bracers, and the BP!

Garlron
January 20th, 2004, 01:10 PM
I dunno if this qualifies as a true idiot story but it's definately depressing. My friend (60 Shaman) and I (62 Necro at the time) were camping Lodi and after two hours he finally spawns.....just as the buffs despawn. So my friend goes to buff my pet and I rush over to Lodi when guess what? My former Guild LEADER jumps out of a hole in the snow and, with her 65 Ranger friend, kills Lodi and KS's me!!

We could have easily taken the kill but I didn't want his loot, I don't need any of it. I wanted him dead so I could say that I duo'd Lodi (not a big woop anymore, I know) So the GL feeds everyone some crap about doing it for the guild :cry:

laertise
January 20th, 2004, 01:45 PM
Heres a good one was in BoT camping SR's and had a lvl 65 warrior tanking over me the pally(boo boo boo) always let the pally tank. Anyways I was only lvl 62 or so at the time so it was better for him to do the tanking. Well theres a thing about when you start to pull the SR's you want to rush the first one you kill so you get out of the middle away from the statues. At 62 even I knew this (I was keyed for BoT at 59) so we buff and everyones gtg. Then the next thing I see is an arrow go flying past my head and hear inc a stormrider blah blah blah. Then I see loading please wait. The big stone guardians opened us up pretty good. Apparently the chanter had died enough for one day the cleric rezzed us chanter left couldn't find another slower and group broke up with out ever killing a single mob.

Laertise

Rhiamon Fatesealer
January 20th, 2004, 02:57 PM
Mondayn, just so you know, you arent the only wizard that doesn't demand a donation. I will accept a donation if offered, but I never, ever ask for money. And I would certainly never refuse to port someone because their donation was too small. And times when someone says something like "Sorry, I can't donate much, I only have 13pp to my name", I refuse the donation and then TL them.

Serpeng
January 23rd, 2004, 02:15 AM
Hi everyone, new to the forum, so I thought I'd post one of my horror stories.

I was playing FFXI, working on my monk in the Valkurum dunes, trying to get to lvl 18 and to get the magick skull, which was the last item I needed to get my subjob quest. We got a six person party together, me, a thief, a whitemage, blackmage, a samurai and a warrior. We headed for the trees near the outpost and started killing of rabbits and a few small monsters, to get the feel of everyone. Well we had a bit of bad luck, and the whitemage died. So while we waited to have him resurected, the thief wanted to show of his mad boomerang skills, and aimed at a goblin. Blackmage dies. The samurai leaves the group, and we're all mad at the thief. He apologizes, and we decide to give him a second chance, cause it was one mistake. So the mage gets resuurected, and we get a paladin to replace the samurai. So while we're waiting for the paladin, we start heading to the beach to kill some clippers(giant crabs for those of you that don't know). Well as we're walking, i see the same message, "watch my mad boomerang skillz". Two gobs start chasing us, and we lose more people. At this point I should have left, but the thief apologized again, and after regrouping we went down to the beach.
Now, the beach is a good place for exp. Clippers can be taken one at a time, they dont link, and the only agro thing on the beach is ghouls at night. So the warrior grabs a nearby clipper, and we see the message pop up again "Watch my mad boomerang skillz". He hit a fish, which proceeded to slaughter us. So finally we all left the thief, and disbanded to join other groups.
Good news about this was next day I found the samurai again, and we proceeded to tear house in the dunes, so at least one good thing came out of this ^-^.

FuzzyBear
January 23rd, 2004, 07:52 PM
(snip)24 and dual wielding centi longswords(/snip)
O_o
I could have *sworn* they made those things LORE sometime after Luclin release, but according to allakhazam's, apparently not. Of course I suppose even if they had, someone could have pre-nerf versions lying around.

Zutan
January 24th, 2004, 01:27 AM
that theif sounds like a troll :P

and his name would be spread as mud throughout the server.
but im a prick lol :)

Zutan
January 24th, 2004, 01:45 AM
i think i have generaly the worst luck in groups.

my monk (lvl 40 or so at the time) on test, got a group for a ldon cant remember all of the people. but this god forsaken ranger. *mumbles* im pulling fine trying to split some mobs. told everyone "move to far wall so i can FD and get them to split" and asked the ranger to tag the last one in line.
ok it goes well for a couple. ranger gets sick of waiting. and pulls an entire room in mistmoor. about 4 werewolvs, and 2 or 3 of those black cloked guys. needless to say im the only one that survived
i think i said screw it. stayed FD, and /qed out.
on test in the last 6 months. its been generaly hard to find a compitent low lvl group.
at 25 with my mage, was in hhk in a group. and this bard kept singing his AE invis song and killing the groups pets (2 mages a sk and a nec) not like pets are that expencive in gold cost. but they are hellish expencive in mana at lvl 28 to have to recast ever 3 mins when the bard goes to pull or to sell.

Naelaen
January 24th, 2004, 02:39 AM
I could have *sworn* they made those things LORE sometime after Luclin release

There are LORE and not LORE versions I believe.

Tiladien
January 24th, 2004, 03:12 AM
There are no lore versions of centi longswords. People have been offering lots of plat for a link of one with no takers. The rumor started before the Bazaar started, probably because they were a good cash item for awhile but so many of them hit the market that they dropped to about 750pp (on Bertoxx). After the rumor they went up to 1.5 to 3kpp. People seem to keep it going for that reason.

xanzabak
January 24th, 2004, 05:18 AM
I've blocked out most of my horror stories, but I used to have tons. I got so sick of crappy pickup groups that I got direcharm, leveld my second account cleric up some, and started two bosing with direcharm pet and the cleric to heal in in plane of torment. Now, if i can't find a guild or close friend group, I two box. Every now and then I will get brave, or foolish, and throw up LFG. Generally I get LDON requests constantly though, and I have sworn off LDON all together for a month at least, even with guild groups.

Realmreaver
January 24th, 2004, 08:11 AM
The examples below are all from ONE day of play. It was one of the best days for me, and simultaneously, one of the worst days for me, in my eq history.

I went on an LDoN adventure to hit 57. The group played out like so: Warrior, Shaman, Bard, Shadow Knight, Cleric, Monk.

That's about as well balance an LDoN group as you can assemble in my opinion. You got the bard for pull, lull, crowd control & mana battery; the cleric to heal and back up pacify; Shaman to slow, alacrity, root, & auxilary heal; SK to snare, dot, auxilary tank, & off tank if necessary; and, the Monk for raw DPS.

It should have been an easy group. Collect 24, lightening fast. Done in 45 minutes... right?

Wrong.

The bard was the worst I have ever seen. Couldn't pull for crap, failed to mez reliably. It was pitiful. One character completely ruined our group. We had to find a way to pull without the bard. Note also: The bard bitched and complained about us yelling at him, which none of us did, even after he got the cleric killed <-- on the first multipull (set us back 20 minutes).

And, when I told him to twist popcorn mez to "stun" caster mobs, he told me not to tell him how to play his character (despite the fact that he was letting cleric mobs complete heal themselves 3 and 4 times in a row). He cursed and complained and sputtered non stop until he got the cleric killed again, and we all (the REST of the group) started playing like he wasn't even there. He freakin tanked for most of the rest of the adventure. **sighs**

He did manage to successfully mez a couple of multi-pulls... but then again, *I* THE WARRIOR was having to freakin pull (switched back and forth between the monk and I, with the cleric running up to pacify.)... so SOMEONE had to be crowd control.

He left as soon as we lost the adventure (with 2 more to collect) - Jackass.

Anyway... that was just the LDoN adventure, but you can see how one d00dish jackass can screw up everything.

---


Feel free to share your horror stories.

actually I have found that anything not set on normal I have a VERY hard time controling mobs.... Yes I am a bard and they resist everything I toss at them they are simply too high for me... *level 61 without 61 lull* mezz doesn't work lull doesn't snare does if it hits which usually does but there is times..... got into a big fight with one group cause i told them that i can't work right with a hard LDON misson.

Woody
January 24th, 2004, 12:08 PM
I've only done one Hard mission, and THAT was not it.

Realmreaver
January 24th, 2004, 04:16 PM
wow he did suck LOL

lymlym
January 25th, 2004, 09:05 AM
Bad bards are all too common however. Reason being they are a complicated, difficult class to play to their full potential. Can fill almost any roll in a group if played properly, but...*shrug*

I had a 48 bard that didn't know how to disarm traps

.... ugh my poor cleric kept getting poisoned throughout - almost got her killed from it.
me: would you disarm the trap please?
bard: I don't know how

because of him, I created a disarm trap hotkey on my rogue

Kivuli
January 25th, 2004, 09:43 AM
Hmmm. Well here's a suck story:

A while back fairly recently after PoP's release, I get a group over at guardians in Plane of Nightmare. The group composition is rather nice, me (a beastlord), a monk, a cleric, an enchanter, a warrior, and a paladin I think. So we're not hurting for tank power, heal power, or damage power.

BUT!

The first pull I knew something was wrong. The monk pulls a single mob and brings it to camp. First thing that happens is <MEZ!>.

...

Okay, maybe there's another coming.... Nope. It's just sitting there. The enchanter casts a few spells on it followed by the Cleric casting a few spells on it. Next? The warrior says "taunting".

...

5 minutes later, he breaks mez and attacks the damn thing. So during that fight I ask "Okay, why don't we just attack it on incoming?". The response I get: "We pull singles and mez them so that the enchanter and cleric can tash, slow, debuff, and MoK/R without getting aggro. That way they don't die and we kill faster.".

...

Okay, one mob every ten minutes is killing faster? Needless to say, I told them thank you for the invite but I'll just go solo for a while.

lymlym
January 25th, 2004, 09:47 AM
Kivuli
>.< not a bad idea BUT....that is a really slow method. what they need to do is work on timing without having to mez

Naelaen
January 25th, 2004, 01:51 PM
me: would you disarm the trap please?
bard: I don't know how

For the best really, if he did he probably hadn't gotten it up to a level which wouldn't set the trap off when you so much as looked at them :)

I know LDoN has inspired my rogue to practice lockpicking and disarm traps :)

Realmreaver
January 25th, 2004, 04:40 PM
me: would you disarm the trap please?
bard: I don't know how

For the best really, if he did he probably hadn't gotten it up to a level which wouldn't set the trap off when you so much as looked at them :)

I know LDoN has inspired my rogue to practice lockpicking and disarm traps :)
I know how to disarm but never done it since till LDON I never had too most of the time the people I group with ignore the chests.

Starwind
January 25th, 2004, 04:43 PM
Oh lord, do I know how you feel.

Remban
January 25th, 2004, 11:59 PM
One story I have about a bad player is from DL. We were doing pretty good, and eventually the healer asks for a quick med break. The puller acknowledges the request, but then completely ignores it. So we do another fight, without having a healer. Then another, and another. By this time we are all pretty beat down, and after asking the puller to STOP PULLING for the fifth time and still being ignored, we said that if he pulled again we were all going to leave him to die. He still doesn't stop, so we all pack up and leave the spot we were in, and sure enough 10 sec later he's screaming at us asking where we are and why we weren't helping. He was cut off in midrant by death, and then started badmouthing us for leaving him to die and was saying not wanting to die and lose exp wasn't a good enough excuse. Needless to say, he ended up on our ignore lists.

Naelaen
January 26th, 2004, 03:51 AM
I've heard you need at least a 200 skill in disarm and sense traps to avoid setting the buggers off. Possibly why people don't bother with them, too much a gamble at the lower levels.

Realmreaver
January 26th, 2004, 04:09 AM
at best only 100 in skill a bard can get heh. I opened ONE and I bashed it in... *forgot my lockpickin tools =)

Poofe 'n Evandril
January 26th, 2004, 06:25 AM
Heh, I had never worked my sense/disarm traps skills before LDoN...And I was offline for the first month it was out ;) Needless to say, me Bard caught some flack over his lack of skills...Now fixed ;) Luckly, my Rogue has always tried to master all of the, ah, collector's skills, so he was set.

Dr.Gonzo
January 28th, 2004, 08:45 AM
Uhg, I've doing Ldons for awhile now and Ive noticed that with the exception of warriors and a few instances, I have had the highest hp/ac and atk rate in the group. Duel weild some nice weapons and know how to back off when some is MA. Well in a guild group we noticed that when I take aggro my DS realy helps out. So, logicaly I think why cant I MA. I travel to the bazaar, do some tweeking on my sta and ac where I can and now in my usual group (50 SK, 51 clr, 47 rogue, 47 wizzy, and me, a 50 ranger) I have the best hp/ac by AT LEAST a hundred. So I main tank and hold aggro with no contest, and my DS makes a big difference.

Last night, our clr and rogue wasnt on. So we try for a pick up cleric and starts asking us to fill last spot. We pick up a wizzy and a pally(admitted his paci skill was too but he was the only LFG) low and get started. Right away clr goes straight in. This doesnt worry me because we usualy rip through these. We get buffed and I go to pull. I pull one which is good for Nro when your pacis wont paci. Well at the end of the fight im told not to taunt and the that SK will be the MA and the pally will pull. We explain that I keep aggro better and list of our hp/ac and the three tanks agree that Im better equiped for the job. Well, I know that the situation is odd and people say rangers make horrible tanks *shrug* so I dont argue with my healer when she repeats how she wants it.
Next pull, after the pally's paci fails and brings 3 mobs we go to work. I end up backing off almost the whole time because I didnt bring any non-proc weapons and the mobs are dying slower. Well they die and the pally runs up to the next few and begans to fizzle. The wizzy complains and says "lets get the show on the road." The SK says " can the Ranger pull so we can all do damage... I mean he has the better stats" the clr says something to the effect of do whatever. Pally trys to paci and fizzles his mana away, not having much from healing the cleric and sits to med. The wizzy says something else rude about hurrying it up, so I say "he warned about his skill, thats why I was pullin" Wizzy says "so pull", and I do. I pull a single, then two, then a single, and then I got another triple pull. We hacked away, and I notice my health is at 20% with 3 mobs on me and I see a message from the cleric about a superior heal for ranger. And, then I see returning to home point. I get up and start running. They finish of the other mobs and cleric say "80m" and I start to get the picture. I get a rez before I get there which I usualy wait until after but im sick of arguing(she ignored my request for a re-temp, even after I tried to hand her a dot). Next pull I get two, no problems there. About to finish the other one and we get a wanderer which shouldnt have been easy. Well Im backing off, because I dont have temp and the mobs head for a wizzy. I hop in there and try to pull aggro off him, I do. My bar get to 20% again and I see superior heal for ranger, and Im dead again. This time no rez the pally burnt his LoH trying save me, and the cleric says "75m". I get back because we can still do it with time to spare. Well I loot and the pally's paci fails and we got four. I try to root and pull aggro and again Im getting superiors while the SK is getting CHs. I say " i have stopped taunting after you wouldnt give me a temp", I get to 20% I get another superior and die, they evac and the cleric says "45m". No rez, no temp, and the SK needs 1 more point for a bauble at the merchant. My guildies are telling my to disband, but we only have 6 to go... I shouldve disbanded.
A cleric with a rez stick in my guild said she would rez my corpses when we're done so I loot up and get ready to go. As Im looting though, the wizzy blows past me into another room and I see his life start to drop(note: I SEE the wizard run into the room.) He pops out of the door, I see him take a hit from a sand golem, and then he runs back into the room. He says "let me die" and he does then they run out to us.
Most of us make it out, including me this time. Usualy I wait and root as much as I can to let the casters get out, but im not feeling so nice.
Somewhere in there, there was a pull where we evaced but I forgot when it happened.
This was my first actualy blown LDoN. Ive had others where we finished after because of mana or whatever, or quit because od LDs, but this is the only one I have seriously failed. Usually, with my guild cleric, the SK, me and one other, we rip through them so I know it works.
I cant help feeling responsible. My guild and a friend who started playing pre kunark tells me this isnt my fault. I tried to do something new and that works, but the two others wouldnt listen to reason.

I know about the jokes and what most boards say, but I had the better stats. I hate to ask, but was I wrong?

P.S. I know this long and hard to read, but I was ranting so you'll have to forgive me.

Aerinha
January 28th, 2004, 09:33 AM
I don't care about "traditional" roles as long as the group works. If I am on my warrior, and there's a ranger/pally/SK with better AC(hard to do, but possible) then more power to them. The only person likely to protest is my husband on his chanter, since he likes being able to look over my shoulder as I pull to see what he's going to be mezzing.

I have also ended up tanking on my rogue alot( I think I have mentioned that alot already) and the only thing I miss when I do that is Taunt...and root/snare; rangers are really well equipped to pull a mob off a caster. They make excellent tank mezzers when you can't mez things with spells...provided they have enough HP and AC to live through it.

Every once in a while you end up with someone who is not a team player. I would have classified that cleric as one of them. It seems to me he cared more about being in control(having things run HIS way) than actually making the group work. The last person I ran into like that was a warrior that liked to pull LOTS at once. We had a chanter, so not much of a problem, though some of us would have prefered a smoother succession of two to three at once rather than 5 to 7 at once as he liked it. Except that when the chanter called low mana he pulled 7 again...after we survived(due to a close zone edge) I told him not to pull more than a couple when the chanter was low on mana or he wasn't going to be puller...and he laughed. Someone had made me leader at some point earlier, so, I disbanded the warrior...But there were people in the group that wanted him back in, so the necro, chanter and I left instead. The Chanter and I ended up doing a Tak dungeon in LDoN instead. Fun fun.=)

Beastly
January 28th, 2004, 02:10 PM
I travel to the bazaar, do some tweeking on my sta and ac where I can and now in my usual group (50 SK, 51 clr, 47 rogue, 47 wizzy, and me, a 50 ranger) I have the best hp/ac by AT LEAST a hundred. So I main tank and hold aggro with no contest, and my DS makes a big difference.

Dr. if you have the best AC/HP in the group AND you hold aggro well(what ranger doesn't) AND you pull well then you are the tank(if you choose it of course :) ).

I have a 55 cleric that always asks - first question in - who's the tank? They can tell me the enchanter and I'll believe it. I'll run mind you but I'll believe it. :)

I also have a 56 beastlord that has tanked MANY times and pulled many times. Wait...a beastlord that can tank or pull? No way! Nuh uh! Not happening!

After 5 minutes in one LDoN with the Pally from Hell I started pulling with my beastlord. I'm sorry but either he's not pulling or he's pulling 6 mobs out of the room. If someone(me in this case) can do it better WITHOUT pacify mind you then I'm gonna do it. 3 minutes and 4 pulls later the pally was outvoted 5-1 and relegated to being assist/backup heal.

Lots of chatter but bottom line - No matter what class you have there are going to be stereotypes and people trying to tell you how to play your own character. These people get to group with me once then they become added to my very highly-prized list of People I Do Not Group With(or DNG). YES I actually maintain a list. :) Play it your way and tell them to find another group. I pay to play and have fun not to be aggravated.

On-topic :) - Over the weekend we had a halfling Rogue in our party that left the LDoN 3 minutes in. Why? He got love-tapped by the mob ONCE when he performed a very nice crit backstab. Lost 5% of his HP and aggro returned to the tank very quickly but he told us, and I quote, " I am not dying for you F%$#@rs". Nice eh? Finished without him. Only took a few minutes to be happy as a group though. The irritant left and we did fine. The 5 of us got along, co-operated and were successful in a 6 member mission. :)

These people CAN ruin groups but, unless it's devastating(MT leaves 5 caster-types behind) I try to make the best of it. :)

I'll shut up now. :)

Binaman
January 28th, 2004, 02:22 PM
I often end up tanking adds in LDoN when a LDoN normal mob is slowed I can hold aggro off the healer with a single dot and melee it. With my life tap procs and what not I get aggro lock till someone start taunting or stunning it. People are always like WTF a shaman can tank!!

Nulien
January 28th, 2004, 03:58 PM
I've tanked a few times in LDoN as my ranger too. Only time it annoyed me was when a bard in the group insisted on being the tank instead... the entire adventure turned into an agro-stealing contest... I imagine the cleric must've been rather annoyed.

Bowboy
January 28th, 2004, 08:40 PM
Honestly, I love NON conventional groups. I have played several classes but my 3 fave are necro, shammy, ranger not in that order. I have a ton of scare stories so I will limit to one or two.

My 62 ranger has tanked more than a few times. I have had several fave groups and very few were conventional. Tanking Drag nec phase spiders with a necro and another ranger doing healing. Tanking Seb with just a chanter and a rogue. Duoing most places with a shaman.

Having played 3 shamans and helping my wife with hers I know I am not even close to the know all be all but I have a good idea of a shaman's capabilities.

I got called to join a LDoN after my typical rangerly 2-4 hour lfg session. I join a cleric, chanter, wizzie, shaman, sk group. The cleric is the lowest level admittedly. I being the second or third highest and the SK pushing 5th. I usually am in groups that get to the dungeon and buff right before entering.

The shammy was on autorun and entered so we had to buff on the run. We get in and I have to beg the shaman for buffs. That should have sent my Dorksense jingling but I stayed. Then said shaman finally gives me hos and sta. I am happy for the buffs and we start. SK pulls and an unslowed mob is killed fast.

NP. We got it but I wonder why I didn't see a yawn or slowed message. I mean we have a shammy AND a chanter. So SK pulls (does a good job) and boom we get an add somehow. No slow and I near bite it. Well I ask why no slows and get, "I was medding. Buffing took my mana down." I raise an eyebrow and try to take it in stride.

We got not even another 5 mins and we get adds. The cleric dies to heal aggro and the shaman just sits there. No slows and the mezzes aren't sticking well. Well after 2 deaths I was called a jerk for chewing on the shaman for not cannidancing and just sitting for mana regen. All but the wiz were from the same guild as the shaman. He says I don't know how to play a shaman and all I could do was try not to laugh.

Second story. On my shaman in a PoJ exit group. Just me 2 monks and a cleric. Monks started the group by arguing who would pull. Next thing I know we have several mobs coming from each monk and they are having an FD contest. After both monks have multiple deaths each and the cleric becoming a bit irritated. The cleric and I both give our typical RL emergency messages and camp.

BTW Dr. Gonzo, don't limit your ranger on what you can do. I have seen rangers who can tank bot with enough dps and healing in group. Rare I will admit but it's still possible.

Naelaen
January 29th, 2004, 02:06 AM
my typical rangerly 2-4 hour lfg session

So true it hurts :(

Yeah, rangers can tank, we do a good job at off tanking too since we can root mobs while casters retreat a little. However, don't expect us to live much longer than that :(

What level was that shaman Bowboy? And they didn't know how to play a shaman? (musta been about 50+ due to HoS).

Dr.Gonzo
January 29th, 2004, 02:48 AM
Thanks for the pats on the back guys, needed it after that one.
To kinda justify myself as a good player and make myself feel better and all, I grabed my enchanter and hit DL after posting.
Got a group together- shm, dru, wizzy, another ench, and a rogue. I was the highest lvl by a good gap.
I waited until someone asked where the tank was, and then ran and grabbed a rager with tash. Ran back to the group, stopped and rooted it, then let it get a hit in that did me no damage because of beserker strength. While my pet was on it I slowed it then ran and tash/mezzed/slowed another in that order. I can and have soloed this way easily if you dont mind spending the money for dots for Rune absorb sheild.
The group does a great job at burying the first mob and as soon as they turn to the next, I pull another and park it nearby. The Druid is keeping the rogue and pet healed easily because of weak and slow and such.


A park a few more and keep'em mezzed while they take a small med break. I love my mana pool btw.
So after an hour or two of a good ego massage I find them a couple of melee's to fill the gaps that have come up, and go to work on jewelry crafting.
I was glad none of them ever saw an enchanter chain pull before, and I wish I could remember the name of the woman who showed much the same way sometime ago to give her credit. I recieved a tell from the druid about how much slower their exp was now that I left. Eventhough I was higher level than the enchanter who showed me how to do it, it still made me feel so uber.
The funny part of all this is I hate my enchanter for a number of reasons, and I dont have one complaint about my ranger(except for how others MIGHT view the "paper tank" class). But, I pull so easily with my enchanter because of mezz and paci, EDIT: oh and damage absorb sheilds.

BTW-DING 51
All hail the Pathfinder!!

DocBobo
January 29th, 2004, 08:04 AM
If it helps you, my ranger main tanked the other day in POI. At lvl 51. No biggie besides the fact that all melees were twinked to the hilt and had some weird proccing contest. So it was a little harder to maintain aggro (not impossible mind you).

Malnar
January 29th, 2004, 11:52 AM
My main is a Mage, and I have played him to lvl 60, so I think I have a good idea what mages are capable of. I was playing my Necro in the low 30's and was looking for a LDoN. I love the necro because of the versatility of the class, so have been playing her quite a bit. We got into this group with a Mage. All was going good, except the mage kept bragging that he could send his fire pet in and tank a room. Now, low level fire pets can do massive damage, but they are not tanks. They go down fairly fast if they get set upon. So everytime the cleric asks for a med break, he whines about down time. Now due to a few bad pulls, and a failed mez or two, I had gone down twice. Thats lost time, when someone dies, so for that reason alone, the cleric should be listened to. But the tank kept pulling. The cleric decided that the tank would get no heals over 70% and that slowed him down a bit, when the Mage decided he would pull a room. Another 2 deaths, and more time lost. When it became apparent that this was going to be a loss, the mage sends his pet into a room getting 4, and then states "Bye-bye!" and poof, gates leaving us to deal with the mobs. Needless to say, he is on my Never Group With list.

As for Ranger tanks? My 50 Ranger is main puller for our regular group. I can grab aggro instantly with a lvl 9 snaring roots spell. On more than one occasion I have been MT, and as long as cleric calls LOM, we do just fine...

The best LDoNs I go on are with 4 ppl. One cleric, two melee and any other. The pace is fast, the exp great, and with only 4 there are no arguments. I actually had a pally who said he would not enter the dungeon without a slower!! He found another group...=)

Thanks for the rant. :D

Darley Marilith
January 29th, 2004, 01:57 PM
You are much more charitable than I am Malnar. Had he done that to me, he would have recieved a few choice words.
I've been pondering some of my bad group experiences, but I think I've cast memblur on myself. I do recall one time in FM at the giant fort that made me really upset. I was in my early 30's probably, this was 2 years ago, and I had gotten a pick up group. All things considered, the group was doing really well. Well someone was hunting in the brunyai mines and brought a named to the fort. The PC stated that if we could kill the mob for him, we could loot the item on it. We were all agreeable to that. The mob was over 50%, and we got the xp for the kill. Well this was also before they enabled the message stating what was looted from a corpse. One of our group members looted the item and then proceeded to gate and camp. We were all furious and proceeded to petition all at once. The GM's stated they would talk to him and I found out later that he did indeed have the item in his inventory and the GM's took it back, even though the guy denied ever having stolen it from the group.

Bowboy
January 29th, 2004, 06:51 PM
Naelaen, I think he was 54. To be honest I haven't used HoS in an exp group since I got it. I prefer talisman of altuna/kragg/whatever and infusion of spirit. You get another 100 - 250 hp depending on talisman and str and dex stack with infusion, so you can easily max stats on level 50 + chars.

Dr. Gonzo, remember that no matter how good your ranger is the group is only as good as the sum of all players in it. If you have an inexperienced or lazy cleric or slower you are toast.

I prefer slowers in my groups on my ranger just for less need for heals. If I can't find one my dex is pretty nice so I just get out my swarmcaller and beat on said mob till it procs (tagars insects 50% slow).

Kalthos
January 30th, 2004, 09:16 AM
One nightmare group sticks out in my mind quite vividly. There was a 46 War, 43 Ranger, 44 Cleris (good friend), 44 Chanter, 45 Rogue, and 46 SK(Me). Ok, we decide to do a MMC dungeon, Not a prob. Cleric wants to know who MT well be. No one really volunteered for it, so the warrior asks for AC/HP. I have the best ac by around 200 and about 600 more hp unbuffed then anyone else. Ok, my gear is a little better for my lvl than it should be... but 600 more hp than the warrior? Whats up with that? Ok, so the warrior tells the Ranger that since he can snare/root, He is the puller. The Chanter(guildy. Awesome Chanter btw) is sending me tells asking why I am not pulling. I simply shrug. I ask the warrior if he wants me to pull the aggro and tank. He laughs and says there is no way I can take the aggro from the ranger. Hmm... I look at my Aggro spell, my DD, and my DoTs and think... Yes I can. Now, We get into the dungeon. Ranger is multi pulling, Cleric asks if the Chanter wants to paci or should he. Warrior says don't worry about it, we can take them. Cleric sends me a a tell asking WTF? my respnse no clue. Ok, so after a bit, the Chanter is oom. The ranger pulls, gets 2, Cleric heals draws aggro. Not a prob, I run over, Cast Terror of Shadows, Spear of Disease, hit attack and taunt. Mobs mine. Warrior then sees that the Clerics hp dropped some and starts yelling that ones on the cleric. I tell him I got it. The Cleric tells him that I got it. Rogue tells him I got it. and we all proceed to get a lecture, in mid battle, of how important it is to keep the cleric alive! Talk about a duh thing. Ok, I kill the mob on me, and they kill the other. Cleric tosses a Celestial Heal on me. And has to complete heal the ranger. Ranger took a beatdown. I went to about 40%. Ok, so then the warrior continues the lecture. We all, excluding the ranger who was agreeing with the warrior, interrupt him. After sending out tells to the others, I took charge. Being as polite as I can be, I ask the warrior how long he had been playing. He replies that he started back up 3 weeks ago. Ok, I said, how long were you away from the game? He comes back with, "a few years... I quit right after Kunark came out." At that point, A lot of answers few into place. I asked if I could inspect him and he said sure. He was still in full Crafted armor. I asked the ranger and proceeded to inspect him. Full Etched Ivy. I said, Ok... You two have been away for a while... Nowadays, things are done a little different. Tell you what, let me pull for a few, and you will be able to see the difference. Both said "No!" Warrior says, this is how its done. Cleric asks if I can pull, my equipment is far superior to theirs. Again they say no. They continue on how their way is better than anything I can do and that as a SK I should simply stand back and cast my spells. Don't worry about being up in the front trying to tank. Theres a shocker for you... As a SK, I am useless as a tank. Ok... right. Well at this point the Chanter is passing out Clarity and the warrior is a little miffed that he didn't get one. I am busy telling the others that these two have been away for a bit. Rogue's not too happy with the way things are going. To be honest, neither am I. Well, we get back under way and the Ranger is insisting on pulling. They still wouldn't let the Cleric or Chanter Paci the mobs before pulling. Warrior says that the cleric needs mana for heals and the Chanter needs mana for mezzes. Ok, Cleric needing mana for heals, Yeah... the ranger was dying quickly. We tried to explain that if the Chanter Paci's, then she wouldn't have to mezz. Warrior is adamant on doing things his way. I smiled and said Ok, we will do things your way. We lost horribly. was a collect 27. We had 19. Didn't even try for the lesser reward. Warrior was ML btw. We left thge Warrior and Ranger there in the dungeon. But we were nice enough to tell them that we were leaving. Ok, little later, We all are back in BB, Including sulky warrior and ranger, And we 4 disband and make a new group. Shout for 2 more. Warrior wants to know why. And I told him that there was no reason why we should have lost that adventure. He says fine, if you think your so d*mn smart, invite us back in and do things your way. Hmm... /smirks evilly. I talk to the group and they weren't too happy about it but they trusted me and left the decision up to me. I told the Warrior and Ranger both. Do as I say, or you will be gone. They agreed. I laid out the rules. Ranger snares, and No taunting out of either of you. Let me tank. Stay with the rogue at all time, Do not leave his side. Do not attack until he does. Got it? Both said sure. Ok, I get the mission and we head back in. I turn to the Cleric and Chanter, Telling them both, We're doing it my way, you both know your jobs. Both smile. Get in, Chanter moves ahead, starts Paci'ing the mobs, calls which is my target, I pull... and only 1 comes. Dies fast, Chanter calls nexts, and so on and so forth. We go through that mission no sweat. Warrior is trying to say its a fluke. Ok, we do it again. And again. and I tell him 3 times... not a fluke. You ML'ed all four Dungeons, right? He says yeah. I tell him to keep all he got, Get himself and the Ranger better gear, and if they want to learn a better way to play, Look me up. Ranger got really rude and camped. Warrior is now in my Guild and is doing quite well. Something good came from that. He and the Ranger who were RL best Friends, no longer talk. Now to all Rangers out there... I can met a few godly Rangers, and I have met several really good Rangers. But sadly, I have met a lot of really poor ones. The Ranger class is a great class, perhaps one of the best DPS classes in the game. But that Ranger... Had no clue want he was doing, and had no intention on learning something new. A shame really.

Kalthos
January 30th, 2004, 09:17 AM
Oops, forgot to add one small thing... To the day, over two months since that incident occured, The Warrior STILL asks for Clarity every chance we get... Go figure

DocBobo
January 31st, 2004, 03:41 AM
Everytime I give clarity to my warrior friend (by accident, these round robin buff bursts call for it) I ask him in /g if he can summon us some bread and water so the mana isn't wasted. It's usually good for a few cackles, if nothing else.