PDA

View Full Version : Whats the "Vision?"



MCW
December 3rd, 2003, 07:16 PM
Simple question really, I know nothing about EQ history, but the "vision" keeps coming up, what is it?

offensivename
December 3rd, 2003, 07:26 PM
The VIsion is the source of 90% of all questions on this board and 40% of the arguement

Kweil
December 3rd, 2003, 07:34 PM
"The Vision" is what Verant (not SoE) wanted the game to be. More specifically, how the classes would interact, how people would get from point A to point B, how a group of people would play the game, etc.

Coffee
December 3rd, 2003, 07:35 PM
**Chuckles**
Woody, may I reccommend making a sticky thread explaining what the Vision is? It's a question that is brought up on a semi regular basis.
Now, granted, there have not been any previous threads about it on this forum.

The VisionTM was basically why things were as they were in EQ while it was owned by Verant. The Vision was why Ranger's weren't worth a drat, bards were broken after patches, etc.
The VisionTM is well summed up in the phrase "Everything is working as intended."

Ciarin
December 3rd, 2003, 07:36 PM
It's something you do with your eyes.....

MCW
December 3rd, 2003, 07:59 PM
So it was an idea?
What they wanted it to be, but never was.
Kinda like Jurassic Park.

Naryn
December 3rd, 2003, 08:35 PM
The Vision is a loose term for what the original designers of Everquest intended the game to become.

WuphonsReach
December 3rd, 2003, 09:24 PM
The vision was like a firm parent who set boundaries as to what the world would be like. The folks in charge of the vision were capable of telling the players, "no". Change was slow and deliberate (if at all) with close attention paid to how changes would affect class balance. While a particular class might be under-powered, it was well known that class X was under-powered and if you didn't like it you should re-roll as class Y. Each class had a niche and you could plan on filling a particular niche in the end-game even if it took you 12 months to get there.

In short, the vision provided stability.

But the players whined and moaned and complained and petitioned until one day the parent threw their hands up and said "okay! we're throwing out the vision and giving you what you want.".

And it's all been downhill since then...

But then, I'm one of the few that felt the vision was a good thing, and it's not a popular opinion around these parts.

Triv
December 3rd, 2003, 09:31 PM
what i think the vision is:

the halucination that the EQ game designers had created for themselves as a way to escape from the harsh world where nerds were not accepted... :lol:

MCW
December 3rd, 2003, 10:56 PM
heh, you could almost write a book on this, like it was some sort of government like communism. The book on "Vision." Too bad I don't really know much more than its purpose than to give it a formal story.

I have always been intrigued by governments, they are what run our lives. To understand them, is to understand how things work around us.

But lets not get off topic, "Vision"
so from what I've heard, its a what the game Designers "Thought" the game should be run like, and "enforced" these ways, until the Players complained so much. That the Designers gave up on their plans and let it flow the way the players wanted.

I guess thats why Woody drew the vision as a scroll, a document on which these ideas were written, very cleaver.

Thanks all, I think I understand what the vision was, why it was there and why it had been abandoned.

"really makes you think about communism and marxism doesn't it!"

Mordican
December 4th, 2003, 12:16 AM
basially had the vision still been around EQ today would not be what it is... Generic_Newb_1 has the beginning of the game handed to him on a silver plater these days. Which is undestandable since you have more newbs entering the game then high enders leaving it.. Everquest has evolved to be more player friendly... Gone are the days of the level 1 corpse run... the 4 hour adventure to get form point A to point B... many of the things that made EQ and RPG type game with real dangers from the day you set foot into your newb zone. Depending on yuor point of view the Vision kept the game on course, but also restricted what the devs could do with some content, UI, etc..

Kyriath
December 4th, 2003, 12:39 AM
OK so SOE is more player friendly and supposed to make new players get the into the game quicker. Have they ever updated the Everquest Tutorial? I opened it for kicks the other night and GOSH it was the old UI. I barely remember how to move around. Matter of fact jumped in the river and never could make it out. Made me wonder. Is it still the same old tutorial on newer software?

Kweil
December 4th, 2003, 12:40 AM
I miss the vision. Liked it or not, the vision kept the game moving towards a certain end. It was perfect but nothing really is. Without it we have turned the game into something that people are trying to "win" instead of "experience."

Naryn
December 4th, 2003, 12:41 AM
I'll have to agree with Wuphon that the Vision was a good thing :)

Which is one of the reasons I am looking forward to what Sigil has to offer us.

Woody
December 4th, 2003, 12:45 AM
People have been trying to "win" all along. And, the vision kept the Verant from truly pleasing the players. We made demands and they said "that's not within our vision" and "it's working as intended".

It was our need for "more" that has lead the game in the direction it went.

I think the sense of nostalgia is clouding people's memories of how things played out.

Bisuketto
December 4th, 2003, 01:21 AM
I remember the vision well. I changed servers four times before I ended up on torvonnilous. The vision, although it might have made a niche for every class to have, it really was a pain to go through all the hassle of starting over again. I feel that it being dead, atleast to EQ, made it so EQ could grow to where it is today, hate it or love it.

http://www.gucomics.com/archives/view.php?cdate=20020612

I do wonder what "The Vision" would look like in a dress.....

Nosferatu
December 4th, 2003, 01:26 AM
Kyriath, I'm surprised the tutorial even loaded for you. It's been "broken" for years now. No expansion has had the tutorial since Velious, if not Kunark as the last expansion to include it.

A tutorial is no longer really needed. Most of the basics are in the manual, and if not the in-game help will finish the training.

Kaylen
December 4th, 2003, 02:21 AM
The most annoying side effect of the Vision being given the boot is these people running around with wonderful names like "Haewud Jablome" and "Iplayforfun." While the first you can get changed if you petition enough, the second is completel acceptable. In that respect, it's hardly even a fantasy game anymore, and that bugs me on many levels.

Woody
December 4th, 2003, 02:33 AM
The name issues are not an offshoot of the Vision being buried.

The name issue is a product of having less GMs in game, and a poorly managed guide program. The guide program USED to be full of people, but their treatment and limitations drove most guides away, and no one really buys into wanting to volunteer for the program any longer because of the horror stories.

Again, not the Vision... poor guide program management.

Kaylen
December 4th, 2003, 02:36 AM
I /petitioned about the names, and the GM told me the naming policy had been revised some years ago, and names are now allowed to be phrases. He seemed just as upset about it as I was, and told me I should /feedback if I felt so inclined. Which I did.

Though "Haewud Jablome" still violates policy, and was eventually changed (an actual occurence, according to Raven). I'm reading their naming policy right now, and it is rather confusing - something blatantly not in the time period, like "Film Critic" would be changed - but the GM told me "Iplayforfun, was, unfortunately, quite fine within the policy.

10. Fantasy-oriented names that are easily recognized from popular existing media (e.g. Merlin, Gandalf, Belgarath, Drizzt, Tanis).

I think.. I think I'm crying tears of joy. So long, Drrizzt! Bahaha!

By the way, here's a link to the naming policy (http://eqlive.station.sony.com/support/customer_service/cs_naming_policy.jsp). Annd.. I'm done messing with this post. I think.

Okay, I lied. There is a big problem with the lack of GMs, as the GM I talked to stated "Film Critic" did violate the policy, but he honestly doubted anything would actually be done about it.

Now I'm done.

Gnomish
December 4th, 2003, 02:59 AM
I think the surnames that are phrases are funny..

Pleasehailmeforbuffs
Nomorecrakforjoo
and Slozoner

are my three favorites from MorellThule

Iilolian
December 4th, 2003, 03:51 AM
The girl that petitioned and got the GMs to change your name from "Leetskillz Kosalot"...

The guy that sends you a tell because he doesn't like the way you're spamming up PoK with /shouts when your trying to sell your spare lewt...

When you come back from work to find your Bard trader mule you left in the Bazaar got kicked while you were AFK... those 20 people that petitioned you for lagging them all to heck just don't understand that you need to train your instrument skillz...

They're all disciples of "The Vision Mk II(tm)"... aww, heck... I guess that would make me one, too :)

danta
December 4th, 2003, 05:43 AM
in my opinion if the viosion was still around eq may be dead by now,

the vision included horrendous death penaltys on purpose, the vision said encounter y shall be killed with tactic z all others hall not be used, trtavel between zones is meant to take a good chunk of your evening, soulbinders wouldnt exist etc

while a laudable goal the vision wasnt player friendly it was more suited to a lan or single player game i think.

Naelaen
December 4th, 2003, 07:26 AM
I think I missed the vision by a couple of months (I had a 15 day trial 2 years back, and that included the tutorial which is my basis for comparison) but from what I read the vision EverQuest sounds awful.

It just seems like a harder, more time consuming version of the current EverQuest and whilst new characters do get a lot of help nowadays, can you really blame them when they're surrounded by twinks? I mean new players can put the effort in to make theirselves some pretty nice armour for example (the final tasks tend to be a bit pants due to bazaar prices) and at least then they feel like they've got something that's makes them feel any worth compared to people with a lot better gear. I have no complaints when it comes to twinking (except when lvl 1 people have something a lvl 50 would be proud of, in which case I think it's not really good from a Roleplay point of view) but it's nice to at least have something more than tattered armour.

I just find the current EverQuest is easier to get into than before (and thus more enjoyable), and I just think that some of the older players are feeling a little hard done by because it's so much easier to get up to speed now.

Kaylen
December 4th, 2003, 07:32 AM
I don't mind twinks. I am quite practiced in the art myself. But when I walk by someone 40 levels lower than me that has gear that may only be trumped by high-planar stuff, it makes me cry. I just kind of wonder how you could invest so much time/money into a class you can't be sure you'll enjoy. The newbie armor quests are a very nice addition - a lot of the melee classes get plate models, which would make any newbie happy. My SK is still going around with chain. But I do think some of the camps are crazy stupid, and pointlessly time consuming.

TheEmerged
December 4th, 2003, 07:42 AM
You know, I did the rant the nostalgia rant the last time this topic. I'm not in the mood this time.

"You can keep your Vision(tm) -- and its freaking boats. I *remember* the Vision(tm), and I'll keep my Plane of Knowledge and Wayfarer's guild."


Oh, and the Vision(tm) allowed Verant to keep the classes balanced? I am *SO* not going there.

Coffee
December 4th, 2003, 08:23 AM
Kaylen, I think Raven had a name he wanted to assign all the "Llleeghollass" types, but can't remember what it was.

dadwen
December 4th, 2003, 09:37 AM
As I stated in the last thread like this on the old GU forums soul binders were a big no-no in the vision, used to be a ton of arguments about them on the old EQ message boards, not sure but I think it was in the vision the boats had to break down every other day too :roll: . (teleports other than wiz and druids were against the vision too)

*I for one certainly have no Nostalgia over the boats, For the first couple of months playing I remember I could not ride a boat from butcher to Freeport, every time youd zone from the Ocean of Tears to Freeport Id crash to desktop and by the time I logged back in Id be back in Ocean of Tears.

Rhiamon Fatesealer
December 4th, 2003, 11:56 AM
Maybe we should put the definition of the Vision in the FAQ. It sure gets asked a lot.

Kaylen
December 4th, 2003, 12:33 PM
But no one ever reads the FAQ.

Kudane
December 4th, 2003, 12:34 PM
I agree with Woody, I think nastalga is coloring the memories of some people (though some may have genuinely liked the vision). Let me share just a few of my favorite vision quotes

Hell Levels can't be fixed.

There is no reason someone under 35 should be able to Meditate without looking a spellbook.

If you want to be bound in a new city, you will need to find a caster.


Yes, the days of riding a boat from Butcherblock to Firiona Vie is gone, so is the zoning under the boat, falling in the water, and spending 4 hours getting your body rides.

Sad but true the days of seeing druids shout "will port anywhere for 100pp" are gone. Along with that is the "crap, its 4am how am i suppose to get back to my body"..

I remember my first character, a halfling running to freeport.. how exciting it was to brave new zones at level 7 and after a 40-45 min run getting to freeport, and shouting for another 30 mins for a bind (not finding one) deciding to go play anyway, and dying in East Commons to a bunch of orcs. Then another 25 min run from Rivervale to get my body, only to be killed in West Common by a Night Giant (Hill giant, spawned at night). Then another 45 mins to get my first body, and get to a safe spot in freeport, and wait for someone to come by that could bind .. soooo whats that almost 4 hours, and I gained no XP, and actually lost 2 gold bubs, almost putting me back to 6... Ahhhh yes. those were the days!! (/sarcasism off)

I am sorry but the vision was great for *starting* EQ, but the game has survived because it has become more flexible. While this is viewed as "killing the vision" I think it just a natural evolution.. When parents have a baby, they have a vision of what they want thier son or daughter to become.. Just because they didnt grow up and be a doctor, doesnt make it wrong.. just different.

/bow

Naelaen
December 4th, 2003, 12:56 PM
There is no reason someone under 35 should be able to Meditate without looking a spellbook

When will they change that one then? :D

Dragonel
December 4th, 2003, 01:00 PM
Okay, ugly confession time- I haven't played EQ in years. I was die hard for a year or more after it's release, then I saw something shiny on my desk and that's kept me distracted 'till then. So I've never really played without the vision.

I enjoy a lot of the 'user friendly' steps that sound like they've been implimented (reminds me quite a bit of EQOA, which I briefly toyed with, actually), but answer me this-

In the newbie area outside of Halas, do those level 20 or so KOS skeletons (the vengeful songster and vengeful poet, or somesuch) still thunder through the newbie zone outside of Halas, massacreing everything in their sight, and continuously push lowbies to cower behind the town guards (to whose aggro range the skeletons will approach the bare edge of, insuring that *no one* is safe if they're anywhere they can find a mob), wishing and hoping and praying some high level warrior would come along and cave the damned things unholy skulls in?

Gebus... I still have nightmares about trying to start a Barbarian Shaman... And that's not even touching on that lovely level 4, where all mobs in the Halas vicinity would fall into either the 'so green it hurts' or 'so red it kills you by looking at you funny' category...

Kudane
December 4th, 2003, 01:24 PM
There is no reason someone under 35 should be able to Meditate without looking a spellbook

When will they change that one then? :D

about 18 months ago..... where you been?

ROFL

Kudane
December 4th, 2003, 01:26 PM
In the newbie area outside of Halas, do those level 20 or so KOS skeletons (the vengeful songster and vengeful poet, or somesuch) still thunder through the newbie zone outside of Halas, massacreing everything in their sight, and continuously push lowbies to cower behind the town guards (to whose aggro range the skeletons will approach the bare edge of, insuring that *no one* is safe if they're anywhere they can find a mob), wishing and hoping and praying some high level warrior would come along and cave the damned things unholy skulls in?

Gebus... I still have nightmares about trying to start a Barbarian Shaman... And that's not even touching on that lovely level 4, where all mobs in the Halas vicinity would fall into either the 'so green it hurts' or 'so red it kills you by looking at you funny' category...

Yes, they are still there.... BUT there is a solution...

Walk to Book, port to POK...

Walk to Rivervale Book, port to Rivervale

Walk to Soulbinder, Bind soul

TADA!!!! no more soloist killing you..

Dragonel
December 4th, 2003, 01:30 PM
Makes sense. Why would a young barbarian prove her might in the frozen north anyways?

Darkelves had a higher cool-quotient anyways :-/

Rhiamon Fatesealer
December 4th, 2003, 01:32 PM
I've always liked fighting through the newb levels in the proper newbie areas. DEs in Nek, wood elves and high elves in GFay, etc. Although, I tried that with my Erudite in Tox and just got so frustrated that I took the boat to Qeynos.

Coffee
December 4th, 2003, 01:33 PM
The Vengfuls are not so tough. Only around lvl 11 or so.
My shammy used to despise them, but I found out that you can avoid them if you're careful.

John Dyne
December 4th, 2003, 01:34 PM
Odd. The Vengeful people must be lower level now.. one of them cons yellow at 9, one's white, and the other is blue. I took the blue and white on, and scrambled my ass back to Halas for the yellow.. what? I'm just a shaman.

Satarus
December 4th, 2003, 06:56 PM
I got annoyed once when they aggroed on me back in the day when they were green as anything.

Woody
December 4th, 2003, 07:10 PM
Vhah is 53 and some skeletons still aggro on him. It's ridiculous.

They are however... undead. Not much left in the ol' brain pan.

Satarus
December 4th, 2003, 07:40 PM
Yeah i know what you mean woody, Last time i ran through and got aggroed by one, i actually had my bardic nuke memed. Applyed my singing mob buffs and toasted the skelly in one bardic nuke.

Tome
December 4th, 2003, 08:36 PM
Tome got aggro by 20 skeletons, *thare high lvl ones like 20-30* and people look on at me a lvl 46 war with buffs out the whazo and a lvl 50 guild friend got killd. Hehehe lvl 50 wizz at 30% hp don't last long i got out at 70% hp,and i killd 15 of thim, he killd 5 with aoe man it whas funny.Pepole saying "MY GOD!!!! :shock: THATS IN*stop*"It did good on guild website hehe.. :wink:

Ivaar Forkbeard
December 4th, 2003, 10:12 PM
I petitioned a questionable name, "Quickfingerz" and was told that it was legal. According to them its just fine to have a phraze in the first name, even if meant to be two words. The "z" at the end didn't seem to make a difference to them, whereas in a fantasy setting that wouldn't have been allowed because of the "z".... *shrug* I give up. I agree that it was really questionable weather that name actually broke the naming policy or not, but really they're just too leniant for my tastes.

Oh yeah... There was a guy on my server named Haewud Jahdome. Not quite the same, and they only made him change his last name.

Naryn
December 5th, 2003, 12:06 AM
The reason I say I liked the old stuff is the fun I had when I was a newbie making it across the continent the first time. A mage friend and my cleric took a good two hours to get from Freeport to Qeynos.

One heck of a trip when your under level 20.

The PoK is nice and all, but I myself was okay with the boats and druids :)

The old hardcore EQ was more fun for me I guess :)


Mebbe thats why EQ II is making you travel somewhere on foot before you can unlock it for instant travel (I think)


----------------
On the Guide front, I agree. The program has been so severely limited that Guides feel useless. They have no real power, and GM's arent around enough to matter :(

Naelaen
December 5th, 2003, 06:09 AM
about 18 months ago..... where you been?

ROFL

Reading my spell book :lol:

Seriously, I couldn't remember if I'd seen a patch note about it or not. :)

Halas isn't a bad newbie area since you can just sit down and wait for mobs to walk by. Plus if you're like me and do the newbie quests, you need to stay in Halas for the items. Tox is the worst newbie area period. At least Paineel has a nice place with some bats, beetles and skellies.

I remember the first time I tried to get from GFay to Freeport. I was only a lvl 15 mage and Luclin had been out for a while so I was trying to catch up with a friend who had it and was getting ported around via the scions. All was fine until I walked into a zone which has haunted me ever since: Kithicor forest. To make matters worse it was night time! I started running along the path, pass a couple of dread wolves.... doesn't matter invis is sti...... Zombie trooper hits you for 300 points of damage, You are gripped in agony, You died. LOADING, PLEASE WAIT.

Dragonel
December 5th, 2003, 11:58 PM
Naryn- I'd expect that's the way. EQOA worked similarly, with stables and charters at every town. You reach a town, you sign the charter, you can 'port to adjacent towns. But only adjacent towns.

I'll never forget once, I spent about an hour getting my level 5 druid from Telethin (why the heck would they change the name?) to freeport, at which point someone announced they'd help me get to Queynos, on the other side of the contenent. Well, they didn't have a keyboard, so they weren't very talkative. A little ways into the journey, in a thoroughly hostile area, they dropped. "What do I do?" I /telled them. "Go west." "And then what?" "Go west. West. Always west."

So I went west. I saw things no level five was meant to see. For all the horrible graphics in that game, I found some of the most beautiful sights I'd ever seen. And still I went west, always west. And finally, I arrived in Qeynos. And I signed the logbook. And then I asked why I couldn't teleport back to freeport. 'Did you sign the logbook in that keep? The one 45 minutes northeast of here?' Was the response.

So I attacked the druid trainer and went home.

EvilIguana966
December 6th, 2003, 10:38 AM
The origional EverQuest was a fraction of the size it is today, making travel much easier even the slow way. But thats beside the point. The vision is dead because people prefer enjoyment over frustration. Making newbie levels livable, and giving newbies appropriate quests to get themselves armor, was one of the best things they could have done. Those first 10 levels are a learning experience, and its best to let the player ease into the game.

Travelling long distances.... I won't say thre PoK books are a perfect system, but they are better than nothing. Personally I liked excitement and exploration, but it gets dull and frustrating really quickly. A self sufficient travel system of some sort is necessary. It would be awesome if they added something like the old velious portal system to every ring and spire. You'd have to find a spire shard or druid stone to be able to use npcs to teleport there, and once you got the focus from the zone you would be able to get ports or use PoK's magic to get to the cities.

But the vision was rigid, it didnt allow the designers to add nifty things that reduced tedium. The game has changed, the vision has been augmented, resistance is futile, you will be balanced.

Naryn
December 6th, 2003, 10:47 PM
One thing I would change about the newbie quests, is make them give the appearance of being the worst type of armour that the class can wear.

The reason being it makes you have a lot more pride when you get your first piece of platemail if you have to earn it through cash or some dangerous quest. Getting fullplate by level 10 sorta cheapens the whole experiance for me.

I was proud of my patchwork leather legs I bought from a tailor in Kelethin for my cleric, waaaaaay back in the day. Getting the rest of the pieces was great.

I still remember the dwarven paladin who gave me my first piece of bronze armour one day in Unrest (back when Unrest was THE place to be with 100 plus people there each night)

Erm, but to get back on track, ramping up the apperance of the quest rewards would be nice. They could even add a mid-level quest set of the second level of armour the class could wear to make it a full progression. Since the Temple of Ro armours can be a bit tough to get, not to mention sorta crappy compared to some stuff offered at the Bazaar.

ViroodiemX
December 7th, 2003, 03:34 AM
Arg... why do i keep doing this.
You may want to just keep scrolling down to the next post.

Ok... /rant on.
I tire so easily at hearing how bad things were back in the days of the vision.

Each expansion has furthered to suck all the fun, and enjoyment out of eq. There is no accomplishment , in running a char from felwithe to odus.or vice versa.Gone are the clerics who have a Defensive skill higher than 5. Gone, is the factioning and racism of classes,which fostered tight knit kinships. gone is the importance of the mythos built into the game. gone is the explorers spirit.Gone, is the attempt to make a fantasy , emulate some of the trials of real life. gone are the players, who know what it is their doing, and the personallitys, that made EQ enjoyable, despite the limitations, and unneeded programming hardships in the game.

And what are you left with? People who when they fall off a boat in TD.. would sink to the bottom and die, instead of trying to find their way out of what seemed to be a hopeless situation. People, who would scoff at a quest, because it is cheaper, less time consuming, and easier to twink in the baz. People, who dont even know the diffrence between plate, chain, leather & cloth armor, outside of the stats, and appearance. People, who advertize their statistics and gear to get groups, and apply their worth for a guild, with harder entry requirements than most jobs. People, who when they find something they dont like about their class.. whine and cry about it , till its changed and they can obtain a happy medium. People, who if it isnt planar gear, it might as well be patchwork leather. People, who didnt realize that when they bought the toon, there were actually levels before 55. People , who dont understand why killing kerafyrm , was such a big deal. and people who dont realize why killing kerafyrm, can be viewed as a bad idea. These are the people, who dont realize that just because you have the power, does not always mean you use it. and its these people, who have helped to turn EQ from a game of experiances, and friendships, to a game where the players force the developers into creating more garbage, conflicted content, just to keep the player base playing, creating a game that is economy oriented. not adventure oriented.

If there was no reward, no loot, no AA, would anyone still play? Do you really have more balanced classes? or is there still a disparity, and its just diffrent classes who are more powerful now?

It was said, that people who liked the vision, have their sight occlouded by pointless nostolgia...wrong. A new example was as recently as luclin. It was a task to get from shadowhaven to scarlet desert, either direction you went. it was an accomplishment , to see the hidden valley for the first time. and it was bliss, when you could go into TM, and watch as people, who were looking for ralic pack quest components, would call out to the zone, and let someone loot it if needed. And when did this end exactly? When there was a port made available to allow people to gain access to these zones more quickly. I watched the population of these zones go from 4 people per zone during prime hours. and relatively friendly people. to 20-30 farmers and grinders, within a weeks time of the ports being added. This turned some of the nicest zones in luclin, into the gutter trash of LOIO/PC.

Yes the vision may very well be dead. But along with it, is the heart, soul, and nobility of the game. and you now have a world, where the true elders of the society have left, and you have a tribe of children, ALA lord of the flies. So enjoy your ports, and other nicetys....and also enjoy your civilization crumbling around you.

/Rant off

Im sure ill be quoted 6 ways from sunday. Im sure ill be shown exactly How im wrong, and How my logic is flawed. Im sure i will be put in my place. My intention, is to at least express the unpopular view. And I feel thats what i have done. Dispite if it is liked , or not.

You Do not see me - Viro

Naelaen
December 7th, 2003, 04:47 AM
The reason being it makes you have a lot more pride when you get your first piece of platemail if you have to earn it through cash or some dangerous quest. Getting fullplate by level 10 sorta cheapens the whole experiance for me.


Guess you missed the whole twink argument. Whilst the newbie armour isn't difficult until you hit the larger parts such as the breastplate it still gives me pride to complete the quests and get armour that I spent time searching down the components for.

Lancetheavatar
December 7th, 2003, 03:49 PM
Those first 10 levels are a learning experience, and its best to let the player ease into the game.

Even true blue newbies can buzz through levels 1-10 in a day or so. Learning experience? Pffft, I've seen so many Clerics trying to nuke, Magicians(and this one hurts...) trying to MELEE. *shake head* Learning experience? Hardly. :(


ViroodiemX

/clap, /cheer, here here!

Zeroaga
December 7th, 2003, 03:54 PM
It takes a DAY to go from level 1-10? :lol: In Anarchy Online, you could level up to *gasp* 30 in a day!!! :D And its fun!!!

Oh yeah, if you need a good Christmas wallpaper, heres one:


<a href=http://69.57.151.222/wtfwallpaper10.jpg>Christmas Wallpaper</a>



Its from www.wtfcomics.com, Really good I must say!


:D :o :) :( :? :x :shock:

Naelaen
December 7th, 2003, 08:05 PM
I've seen so many Clerics trying to nuke, Magicians(and this one hurts...) trying to MELEE.

When you can/could get Temperance/KEI (no longer applicable but used to be, hoping Temp will have a level restriction too since it buggers up healers at lower levels) from level 1, is that no suprise?

EverQuest has a larger player base than it used to. You will find muppets, no game can be without people who wouldn't have a clue how to play their class if you slapped them over the head with the dummies guide to....

I can see why you dislike the EverQuest as it is today because the "challenge" has been taken out of it. I don't believe it's the challenge, but more likely the time requirement has been. If all you have time for is in an hour or so of gameplay, what's the point of using that hour just running from one end of the game to the other. It's tedious and it can be frustrating. I have discovered a lot more of Norrath from using PoK books then I ever had before, simply because in other circumstances I wouldn't have the time (or admittedly patience) to go there.

Nobody is arguing that it's as hard for newbies as it was before, but all EQ does now is give them a punt into the world of Norrath with things players can do to get them interested in the game.

Kaylen
December 7th, 2003, 08:25 PM
It takes a DAY to go from level 1-10? :lol: In Anarchy Online, you could level up to *gasp* 30 in a day!!! :D And its fun!!!

Yeah.. and AO has 200 levels. It's relative.

Ciarin
December 7th, 2003, 08:39 PM
I leveled to 5 today, it took me 2 hours.

yay!!

I got a new Frostalf Runie on Mid/Lancelot if anyone cares! Her name is Korev.

My first Frostalf, my second runie.

kaya raven
December 7th, 2003, 10:41 PM
All I can say about "the vision" is that it needs glasses! The poor thing can't see a thing thru all the crud! heh :wink: *realizes that she isnt even talking about the same subject as the recent posts.* ...*shruggs*

Tuluz
December 8th, 2003, 11:09 AM
/small Rant on :lol:
I agree that traveling is much easier now, but I am glad it is. I quit playing for over a year because due to RL constraints I got tired of running from FP to a boat to get to OT and then, FM to get to LOIO for a corpse run. Or going to FV and pray that someone is there to bind me. All the while praying a higher lvl mob doesn't pick me off along the way (Loading please wait.....). I stopped playing partly for RL and when I quit I was on Dial up and Lucilin just came out and was bugger than all get out. I was seriously frustrated. I didn't have time to devote 2 hours just to get to a corpse.

When I started playing again I erased my original rogue without transfer of PP or Gear. I started from scracth. I enjoyed tailoring my tattered on up. I enjoyed all the newbie quests and the way cut down travel time. Now that my wife and I have a baby I have maybe an 1-2 hours a day if I am lucky to play and I don't want to spend it running somewhere. I don't want to be one of the people you hear about that his family falls apart because someone couldn't unplug. This allows me a little of time to enjoy myself and get back to RL in a timely manner. With travel times cut down and tedium somewhat minimized I can truly enjoy my time on EQ.

I have been stuck in the 35-36ish lvl for the last two weeks and difficult quests still abound. If you want a challenge it is still there. To get into higher lvls it still takes time and devotion. The challenge is there if you want it. If ya uber twink there is no challenge. I am not a against twinking my new Rogue has some stuff donated from my main but the challenge of the Newbie quests is still there for him and I am enjoying it.

This post was a lot better but I had to rewrite. :roll:
This is the condensed version. LOL :D

Naelaen
December 8th, 2003, 04:30 PM
Must have missed the rant bit because I share your vision :D