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Class Choosing and Sterotypes

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  • Class Choosing and Sterotypes

    Need a little help in choosing a class. I'm a randomly casual/hardcore player who, due to where I live, needs a class that solo's rather well, but is nice to have in a group. Also, I would like a class that is on the bottom of the Population charts (hate rolling against other people for gear )

    I come from WoW, being a Feral Druid for months, and I love the survivability that was offered with that class, and the Usefulness that the class has being a jack of all trades. Not to mention I love Heal-Over-Times (HoT's) spells.

    In EQ2, played a Warden, (buffy/healing Druid), and enjoyed being a healer on a server full of Tanks / DPS. Same thing with the HoT's. The forgetful healers best friend.

    So when I came to Vanguard, I wanted to find my little notch to get into. Problem is, there truthfully is no class I can get behind.

    I've tried many and find that certain classes are "entertaining" but is hard to get behind. Here is some stereotypes I think about when I think of any of the classes, please tell me how much I'm wrong though

    Heavy Offense:

    Warrior - Fun idea, "be a tank", but his adventuring is rather mundane (hit the mob, hit it some more), so much as to now I've actually made his Crafting the main purpose of him existing.

    Paladin - Another neat idea and more closely to the times I played a Paladin in EQ2... didn't like him after lvl 30...

    Dreadknight - Truthfully, I havenít even given this guy the light of day for an honest try. I play on Florendyl (RP Server) and I hate anything that is naturally evil (instead of Misunderstood).

    Light Offense:

    Monk - One of the few classes that I would normally get behind. "LOVE" Feign Death, and the Stances you get are absolutely brilliant. But I always burn out on them around lvl 16. Just can't keep a Monk going long enough to be anything more than, Welcome to your Stance Quests. Also very annoyed with how often Feign Death is Ignored when Fighting mobs that are much higher in level than you are, even 2 level higher mobs resist it almost 90% of the time it seems. Kinda puts my initial idea, (in Raid, Dragon Disciple + Feign Death = DPS continually without fear of "Pulling" the mob off the Tank) to shambles.

    Ranger - Another of the few classes that I would normally get behind. I love their ability to basically "survive" encounters, but it is a real downer when you check to see what classes are online and 30% of all the classes are rangers. Just not that interested in being another name in the class.

    Rogue - Interesting class truthfully, they are very evasive and have lots of neat little (tricks), havenít had a time to put much time into this one. So I would accept anyoneís views on it.

    Bard - *Beep* *Beep*... bards are... interesting. They have a lot of neat little abilities, but their class is just confusing to me sometimes (what are instruments for anyways?) Not to mention that they are almost as common as rangers in the big world of Telon.


    Clerics - Heavy Armored Healers. They seem nice, but they have gotta be the most populated class of healers. almost 4x more clerics than any other healing class.

    Shaman - This class seems very interesting, and am currently trying it out. Only thing I dislike about it, a lot of the healer classes, (expect Blood Mage) Has a few Melee attacks, to me, this is stupid, considering that most of your attributes will be in Wis (for Crit% and Energy), Int (For Spell recon and Spell Dam), and Vit (for healing). But that is just how I'm looking at it, which of course could always be wrong.

    Disciple - Havenít really given this class a chance either, it is a weird little class from what Iíve seen. A healer class that needs to do melee... does anyone else get confused besides me on that one?

    Blood Mage - Neat little bugger, lots of spells that both sap life and heal group members. By far one of the easiest to level with that I played (1-15), considering, you can normally sap for more life than they deal. But feels like it is always lacking something when I play. Also, between healing, maintaining Blood Union, and trying to keep energy in case it all goes South, gets a little daunting. (where are my HoT's? )

    Offensive Casters:

    Sorcerer - Played vaguely, love Color Spray (reminiscing back to D&D days), but dislike the serious CC I'm used to. (Maybe WoW corrupted me)

    Druid - Played up a few times, and, while I love some parts about this class, always felt weird casting spells at my enemy instead of going up there and beating him down. Healing is kind of interesting, (finally some HoT's) and have a smidge of CC, love the buffs, and the gifts they can Conjure. Just a few things though that do give me a prob though. It may just be the New Game Blues, but I dislike being stuck in Robes (light) armor where every other MMO (EQ2 included) Druids always wore leather or equivalent to medium armor. Hopefully this gets fixed though.

    Psi - Interesting Idea, truthfully, if I was a caster, I would want a Psi in every group I was in. They have 2 of the best Caster buffs I've seen so far. Mana regen and an Int / Wis Buff. Other than that, don't know to much about em.

    Necromancer - Same reason as Dreadknight. RP server, inherently evil. From what I have played though, they need to buff the pet if they wanna call the Necromancer the "Pet" class. At lvl 10, I find myself almost always pulling aggro off the pet from just basic DoT's I put on the opponent. Try downsizing the Damage it deals, and dosn't help much. They just don't deal enough Threat to keep hold.


    The three biggest things I'm looking for in a class is:
    1. Non-Repetitious, hate classes that are pretty much, Kick, slam, hit, hit, kick slam, hit, hit. I like Chaos and Change, having to evolve to almost each encounter as something completely new.
    2. Low-Population (loved that in WoW, Druids were rather rare)
    3. Decent Solo ability, while having Desired Group Abilities. (I know that is an Oxymoron, but darn it, I want my cake and eat it too.)

    Thanks for anyone who at least reads this... ya ginger @*(#&*$^

  • #2
    I can only speak on behalf of Shamans since it is the only class I have played past level 10. Shamans are one of few classes that get the chance to specialize in a certain aspect of their class and personalize themselves so that even players of the same class won't nesesarily be identical. They do this by choosing one of three spirits as their patron at level 15. Of the 3 spirits are Hayatet the Phoenix who is focused on spellcasting and damage dealing, Rakuur the Wolf is a balance between casting and melee combat, and Tuurgin the Bear is focused on melee and tanking. Once you have chosen a patron you gain the ability to summon a pet that exemplifies the tenets of your patron and truly become the second pet class in Vanguard. Conversely you can choose to assume the form of your patron and become it's avatar which will grant you a portion of your patron's power. You can't have your pet and be in the form of your patron at the same time though so you have to choose. Aside from choosing a patron spirit you get the ability to form bonds with 3 lesser spirits. You can only bond with 1 lesser spirit at a time but you can switch between them at will, unlike your patron spirit which is a permanent choice. The 3 lesser spirits are much like the patron spirits in that they are suited for different situations and play styles. One increases your melee damage, one lowers your spell and ability costs and is best for healing, and the last one increases spell damage. As for Shamans not having many melee attacks, while it is true you only get one to begin with you will eventually get three you can chain, they are all on 12 second timers though so you will be left to auto attack a lot. It is also pretty easy to run out of endurance if you use them all as soon as the refresh.

    For my Shaman I choose Tuurgin the bear as my patron and usually play in bear form unless I have to fight multiple mobs at once and need my pet to offtank. A typical fight starts off with me pulling and applying my DOT spells then meleeing, healing, and refreshing DOTs as needed. I rarely use my DD spells since I'd rather spend my time meleeing then casting. As for allocating my ability points so far 3 str, 3 wis, 2 int, 2 vit, has worked out well. I have no problem soloing 3 dot mobs that are 1 level below me and can safely fight 2 dot mobs that are 2-3 levels above me and finding a team is fairly easy since I can still heal a decent amount.

    All in all I feel that Shamans are a solid choice in that they can adapt to meet the needs of a specific situation and are rather open ended in finding a play style that suits you. Not to mention the patrons are a good way to set yourself apart in RP situations.


    • #3
      Dread Knights are not inherently evil. They are just really intimidating. While they share a few charactertistics of the EQ1 Shadow Knight, they are not the same.

      They are also, conicidentally, the awesomest tank class :P


      • #4
        The classes start to blossom only after level 10. If you tryied any class bellow the level 10 threshold you don't saw what are the real abilities of that class.

        For example, necromancer the pet class, at higher levels they have more than one pet and there is a trick you don't saw because you get them only to level 10... they have a FEAR spell.

        It is simple, pet + Fear spell = mob don't attacking the pet and you. That is the reason why necroes are solo kings. I too supoose you aren't adding crafts to your pet, they get more offensive with crafts added.

        With relation to healers meleeing... only Blood Mage are adviced to not try it, but it is because they use light armor. Let's us see:
        a- clerics - they use HEAVY armor, they regain mana with melee attack, combat oriented healer, check;
        b- shaman - medium armor, very good buffs, can be good at melee depending on the pet, can be made a combat oriented healer, check;
        c- disicple - medium armor, kung fu combat, attacks heals the disciple itself and friends, bonus for fight with bare hands (some weapons are considered bare hands), combat oriented healer, check.

        So, Vanguard is inovative because you will not find any other game where healers aren't a boring class where the only thing you make is be a HEAL BOT.

        IMHO, the ideal to you is try necro more some levels until you get fear spell. After that it is other world and necroes are solo kings. And necroes are usefull at groups too. Other option is cleric, they are good soloers and good at groups.

        Disciple I played at beta. If they have more damage now they can be better soloing, but from what I remember they weren't good soloers.

        Other classes can be very effective at solo too, but need test all classes to level 20 to know for sure.

        I played all classes to at least level 10 at beta. Shaman and necro to level 15. Disciple and dread knight to level 12. I am currently playing cleric. Slowly, I don't need get to level 50 tomorrow. I am too trying all spheres at same time, so need more time to advance.

        Geregor Bedstone
        dwarf, Florendyl
        DwarvenHold guild
        cleric 19 / armorsmith 29 / diplomat 80
        I am from Brazil, sorry the bad english....


        • #5
          I have tried most classes and I have a few points:

          1. If you want a class that is closest to the WoW druid, try Shaman, they can assume forms, dot, heal, melee, etc.
          2. The disciple is a healing monk, it gives you parts of both worlds.
          3. The druid in VG is like original druids, nature casters, they can also heal, I think they are more like Bloodmages in some cases.
          4. Sorcerers are tough to solo, they can blow stuff up, but don't have much defense, I founf Sorcerers and Warriors to be the most group oriented classes and do their primary jobs the best, tank and blow stuff up.
          5. Necro is the best solo class, but almost any CAN solo, its a matter of what you want to solo.
          6. Dreadknights aren't evil as someone else mentioned just intimidating, they are a great tank, can also solo, and have options, though maybe I haven't gotten mine high enough, I was hoping for more drain life spells to get some more healage.
          7. I didn't know Rangers were so popular in the game, they are also very group oriented, not like hunters, they dish out melee quite well, but get hit hard and their range shooting, is a bit slow it seems.
          8. Groups in VG seem to want (others correct me if I am wrong at the higher levels), tank, puller, healer, secondary healer, dps, I haven't seen much on the cc side. Best group I was in had, DK, Monk, Cleric, Shaman, and Sorcerer.
          "Perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit lim"


          • #6
            My DK is currently 23. I have two major life drains. One is a backstab, the other is a melee AE.

            The Melee AE lifetap rocks. I generally tell my mages NOT to mez/sleep adds if I pull 4 or more mobs. I use the AE lifetap instead. It heals you for an amount equal to damage dealt per mob. I can heal myself for several hundred hitpoints per attack. It makes my healer's job alot easier and allows me to solo several mobs at a time. The downside is that it eats a hefty amound of endurance so after a few swings you want to cast your endurance draining spell to replenish quickly.

            Honestly, I think Vanguard has some of the best classes of any MMO. Most are fun and have some definitely innovative ideas built into their traditional bases.


            • #7
              I'll through my bardness in to this heap. The class is very well done. The songs still need some spit and polish but are pretty cool. The combat abilities and spells are still a little off but getting better. Like every bard class out there it is too diverse to be effective in one area but you can "wing it" in most situations in most roles in moderately sized groups. That being said I don't think the bard class comes into its own until the low to mid twenties.

              As far as the instruments are concerned, they are used to multiply the effectiveness of our songs. Example, if I compose a run speed song that grants my group 50% boost to run speed and I equip a percussion instrument (a drum) with a 2.0 song mod on it I will effectively grant a 100% boost in run speed to my group while I have the drum equipped. This fails a little when you have a bunch of song components that use different types of instruments (or use voice only, in which case you'll need some special armor/weaps that grant a voice mod, and it will be fairly small, like 7-8%) or a song that you would want to use when you have weaps equipped.


              • #8

                I agree with the above post about Shamans. I chose Wolf, but had the same enjoyable experience. However, I had debated between two classes at the start and was convinced of Shaman by long time friends and VG beta testers.
                The class was enjoyable, but solo got to be very slow, and was generally concidered the "secondary healer". I do not feel the need to be first picked, but I want to at least feel i can handle myself with excellence in solo combat if I have to wait for a group.

                I tested the Bloodmage in downtime and fell in love. The versatility and power of this class is undeniable. The heals they get are ok, the cast time slow in comparison to the Shaman and Cleric, but the lifetaps are where the money is so to speak. The ability to do substantial DPS while healing yourself and others is invaluable. I have found this class to be generally under-rated and confusing to most folks. I understand you feeling daunted by a full group combat situation, especially if you are the "main Healer". This class is tough, and you have to have excellent timing. I gladly take the roll of secondary healer with the Bloodmage. Solo play continues to but interesting and fast paced, with the abilities stacking and upgrading. Also you should be aware of how little you even see a bloodmage wandering around. They are non existent. To the point I have been asked my many veteran player if I am a Healer or what?


                • #9
                  Once you hit 18 the shaman can primary heal again, from about 12-18 I know what you mean. Clerics/Druids/Disc/BM's could just do it better, and it was really discouraging!

                  But then I hit the golden level for the Shaman, 18.

                  Now I never run out of mana, can reduce mob damage by 50, and DPS by 16%, deal 1700 in DoT spell stacking, and being Tuurgin...I am usually the last group member standing in a whipe, sitting there in bear form spaming Ritual of Sacrifice and Life Ward trying to let the dots tick away....

                  Even at 18 I recovered my guild group in KE (got rolled on by the king!)

                  Shamans rock once you hit 15, and even harder at 18



                  • #10
                    Rogue - Low level

                    I'll admit, my main Fighters are all "Light Offensive" types. I'm an ex-EQ Monk and ex-WoW Rogue player. I like to hit hard, and have a way back out of trouble if I get too deep. And as a Monk that snuck/FD flopped all they way through Guk to camp Raster (while Raster and his local goons were all good for Exp, too) and down through Seb at later levels... and a Rogue that has snuck through every major Instance pre-TBC except Scholo and Strat (and the Raid instances, though I did explore almost all of ZG) I tend to like getting in over my head pretty often.

                    Rogues are a pretty Group-dependant class... or rather, it makes it a LOT easier when you can have some patsy (aka: partner) take the head-to-head damage with the mobs. But, as long as you think unroguelike, you can do pretty well. (KneeBreak Range Kiting is the most notable system... essentially Ranger Snare Kiting, but using a melee attack to 'snare' the target. I've done 2dot's 2-3levels above me, and 3dot's a 1-2levels below me consistantly. Just need a lot of space, and positional awareness to not get caught on a wall/tree/rock or fall off a cliff while you track backwards.)

                    But, with a little skill work, rogues can sneak around anyone even-to-lower level without much trouble. You just need to stick to mob's backs, and not step into line-of-sight unless a ways back from them.

                    Once pickpocket skill gets above 100 or so, you don't get discovered with your hand in the cookie jar except on rare occasions. It's based more on EQ's PP skill than WoW's, in that you get very little in the way of coin from it. (a few items worth 8c, but mostly pocket lint and the rare poisonmaking component... but those are VERY rare for me, so far) But, it's a reliable stipend, so stick to humanoids whenever possible.

                    The real joy is again in a group... as long as you don't outdo the tank, you can stick to the shadows and enjoy all the hardhitting attacks you can muster. Remaining in stealth during combat, as long as you aren't directly attacked (or indirectly... AoE is still a problem) is the true essence of being a rogue, to me. While solo, you can sometimes get off a nice crit Opener, and knock off your target with a quick Finisher and still be completely hidden. It's a rare thing to happen at my level, but still noteworthy. (Pickpocket helps here... the more activity you do while stealthed and REMAIN stealthed the higher your Stalking Level raises... the higher it gets, the more damage you can do, faster you can move, and all with boosted agro reduction. So, pickpocket a few guys and you'll have a nice upsurge of damage on your first hit on your target)

                    Overall, I love my lowbie rogue, and will stick with him for a good long while... now if finding a group for lower-level dungeons were easier, I'd be a bit happier.
                    "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to read."
                    - Groucho Marx


                    • #11
                      Where are you LFG at? I know on Florendyl that Tursh is a good place to find a lowbie group. Riftseekers Torrent, Three Rivers, and Khegor's End are all a stone's throw away. Hopefully the Riftways will make it easier for people to get together.


                      • #12
                        I wanna thank everyone for some good hitting and switching.. opened my eyes to a few aspects that I never considered (lots of shammy love).. and I'm sure anyone else who still has doubts on what to play...

                        Now, for something that I have read in other forums I thought might be brought in... Vanguard has done something few other MMO's do, they gave ALL their classes multi roles. Normally these roles are on a scale of 100% (Job 1) 50% (Job 2) but regardless... they gave them all some versatility.

                        Currently, Playing a Goblin BM (Foxclaw) and really enjoying it. I find that most time in groups, I deal quite a bit of DPS while maintaining everyone in the Group's Health. Until Vanguard, most healers were, Heal 1, heal 1, Heal 1, (damage Spike) heal 2, etc.

                        Now I find that I'm expected to dps, which makes my heals stronger, which means we survive longer, which means I dps more, etc. It's a vicious cycle that will prolly be one of Vanguards best selling points. Heck I rarely come outa the DPS form for my class, just not worth it except with Casting AOE Heals.

                        The Versitility of most classes is truely amazing sometimes also. Healers that are expected to DPS, A High DPS (although Mana Innefecient) caster that is adept at healing people (Druid love), Monks / Disciples / Rogues who save the entire group from a wipe by making use of formidable "I'm not here" spells (lets not forget Evac). A PSI that can make an enemy battle itself long enough to pull the group from the gutter. Each class has spectacular abilities, and no one is best.

                        Thanks for everyone who helped me realise that Vanguard, is unlike anything before it.


                        • #13
                          I'm on Targonor... I'd wanted to head to Florendyl as I've noticed that RP servers tend to have less... undesirable player-types. (whew... got through that without calling them something that'd get edited out later...)

                          But, my monk always is named something that someone decided to make a Lvl.1 alt of. (Thank goodness for, or I'd have just given up.) I've had a monk by that name since pre-Kunark EQ1, and one of the selling points for Vanguard was that he'd be able to come back out of retirement.

                          And, since I'm an Altoholic and insatiable crafter (current "mains" are a pacifist bard diplomat/artificer, stealthy rogue/blacksmith, and psychotic monk/leatherworker, with a necro tailor on the way) I kind of have them all interdependant. The BS makes harvesting gear for others, the artficer is slowly leveling to be able to become seaworthy, while the monk just gears himself (because all my coin gets sucked up into everyone else...) and makes the bard not look totally gimped with her Lvl.1 newbie garb.

                          "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to read."
                          - Groucho Marx


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GantRahl Goodekind
                            I'm on Targonor... I'd wanted to head to Florendyl as I've noticed that RP servers tend to have less... undesirable player-types. (whew... got through that without calling them something that'd get edited out later...)

                            But, my monk always is named something that someone decided to make a Lvl.1 alt of. (Thank goodness for, or I'd have just given up.) I've had a monk by that name since pre-Kunark EQ1, and one of the selling points for Vanguard was that he'd be able to come back out of retirement.

                            And, since I'm an Altoholic and insatiable crafter (current "mains" are a pacifist bard diplomat/artificer, stealthy rogue/blacksmith, and psychotic monk/leatherworker, with a necro tailor on the way) I kind of have them all interdependant. The BS makes harvesting gear for others, the artficer is slowly leveling to be able to become seaworthy, while the monk just gears himself (because all my coin gets sucked up into everyone else...) and makes the bard not look totally gimped with her Lvl.1 newbie garb.

                            Truthfully, I havn't met a single truly "undesirable" player-type yet in Florendyl. Havn't gotten up high in the levels yet, but very few are on the server (For what I can tell). Met a few that are near it, I would say because of inexperience, (pulling mobs when All Casters are OOM, etc) but none that do it purposely.

                            I think the fear of a RP server makes most people who wanna do nothing but be ... "undesirable" look for another server.

                            Fear of RP server I think is also in the "good" Players. I enjoy it for the mere fact that I enjoy (when Vulmane) calling my allies Packmates, etc. Giving your character some personallity, back story (my Druid has a Phobia of Horses from when he was a little Pup), makes you care more about him/her, and allows you to relate to fellow adventurers better. If everytime you came online, you said to your guild "hello", well your a nother person saying hello everyday. On the other hand, if you say "Hello my Brethren Packmates", just puts a little more flavor and commrodory within the guild.

                            Only thing I have ever experienced in RP servers is either;

                            A. You are a good player / New player willing to learn, and someone takes you under their wing or joins/teams up with you on a regular basis and you enjoy your leveling, regardless how long it takes ya.

                            B. You are an "undesirable" person / New player unwilling to learn, you'll find that grouping is extremely difficult once your reputation gets around and the game will constantly frustrate you. (sorry to say, lots of this game is designed for groups, no matter what class you are.)

                            But don't let me say that everyone should play on RP servers. Far from it, if you just wanna enjoy the game for what it is, I recommend the regular servers, and enjoy it! Only if you wanna take the game somewhere else should you try the RP side, and even than, RP is not for everyone.

                            If anyone does come to Florendyl, Look me up (Foxclaw, 16 Goblin BM), I'm on late night, but always willing to help anyone who needs it, or just wanna talk.


                            • #15
                              Targonor is down (HARD crash), so I made an offtime alt on Florendyl.

                              Targsdon (Targ's down) Brokeknuckle, Orcish Disciple.

                              I tossed Foxclaw up on my friend's list... but I don't expect a lot of playtime with him. (Gonna try being a pure quest/grind character... no trades or diplomacy, unlike ALL my other characters on Targ.)
                              "Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to read."
                              - Groucho Marx