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  • #16
    My question is what has he done that was unconstitutional all I have seen is he has signed executive orders which Obama did when he got into office and from what I'v seen they have just over turned what Obama wrote in his last days in office or increased background checks for certain countries Obama administration had already had set the groundwork for. If you are going to call someone for being "as fundamentally unAmerican and woefully unConstitutional" then you may wish to point out exactly what you are talking about because there are as many people who said the same about Obama, Clinton, and the 2 Bushes. I do love your comics but if you wish to step into the political satire then you need to be a little bit more exact. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IKHJjgYYjg) This is a good talk from Kellyanne Conway about the executive orders (including the expansion of Obama's increased vetting of people from certain counties of interest) and the foreign officials he has talked to (including the hour meeting he had with the Mexican president over the phone). I personaly think power to make laws should be given back to congress from both the executive and judicial branches but the progressive beliefs have permeated to such an extent that I don't think it can be put back in the bottle *shrug*. Trump reminds me of how Teddy Roosevelt was described. I could just see how the "Bull Moose" would be seen today after all he WAS shot at right before a speech and still went on stage.

    Just my two cents worth
    WWJD (read the book and find out j 3:16)

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    • #17
      Here is what I know about the order in question, based on reading several articles about it, and reading the actual content of the order:
      - The order was *supposed* to only stop the issuing of new Visas from the specified countries for a period of 60-90 days. However, the order was worded in such a way that it applies retroactively to Visas already issued
      - The order exempts Diplomatic Visas, and G1 through G4 (international business travelers).
      - The order failed to exempt Green Card holders (also known as Permanent-Resident Visas), and people who have already been granted refugee status.

      This is the crux of the issue, as these people have already been vetted by the US government and as such, have legal US residency status. Yet, they are the one being detained or turned away at the airports, and are the primary reason for the protests. Because of the broad wording of the order, and the oversight with not exempting existing legal residents, Trump's order is effectively kicking out foreigners who have a legal right to live here.

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      • #18
        Has anyone actually bothered to read this executive order? First off it is a travel ban, not a Muslim ban. The order bars all people hailing from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. Those countries were named in a 2016 law concerning immigration visas as "countries of concern."

        I served in the military. One of the things we were taught was that a terrorist is going to attack. Our job was to make it so difficult that he would go elsewhere to do it. So giving someone a free pass into this country that may want to do me harm, not exactly a good thing.

        I am all for fighting against injustice. All I ask is please do some research. It seems almost everyone has their own agenda these days. So it is very difficult to sort out truth from fiction.

        If you are interested in reading the exact text of this executive order, and trust me it wasn't easy to find, here is a link from CNN. http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politi...-ban-refugees/

        - - - Updated - - -

        Has anyone actually bothered to read this executive order? First off it is a travel ban, not a Muslim ban. The order bars all people hailing from Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. Those countries were named in a 2016 law concerning immigration visas as "countries of concern."

        I served in the military. One of the things we were taught was that a terrorist is going to attack. Our job was to make it so difficult that he would go elsewhere to do it. So giving someone a free pass into this country that may want to do me harm, not exactly a good thing.

        I am all for fighting against injustice. All I ask is please do some research. It seems almost everyone has their own agenda these days. So it is very difficult to sort out truth from fiction.

        If you are interested in reading the exact text of this executive order, and trust me it wasn't easy to find, here is a link from CNN. http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/28/politics/text-of-trump-executive-order-nation-ban-refugees/

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        • #19
          Originally posted by A_Nolan View Post
          My question is what has he done that was unconstitutional...
          Originally posted by Rexx View Post
          ...First off it is a travel ban, not a Muslim ban....
          First, let's find the relevant piece:

          "but only so long as they determine that the admission of such individuals as refugees is in the national interest -- including when the person is a religious minority in his country of nationality facing religious persecution"

          The majority religion of all 7 countries is Muslim, so this uses a roundabout way to say "Except Muslims"

          It was specifically worded to not technically be unconstitutional, but by intent it absolutely is. From the 1st Amendment to the US Constitution:

          "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

          You'll notice this pertains to Congress, not the President, hence it technically being OK. This is because it was specifically designed to be anti-Muslim, without technically being so. Giuliani specifically said this, and he even said Trump wanted a "Muslim Ban". https://youtu.be/l9GKL6i38pI?t=190 ( Relevant quote: "So when [Trump] first announced it, he said, 'Muslim ban.'" )

          Additionally, from Trumps own website:

          https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-r...im-immigration

          There's no ifs, ands or buts about that. It very clearly says, "Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States". It's even in the title!

          Then, there's the unAmerican part. This is far simpler. The United States of America was founded by immigrants, and became great through massive immigration and being a safe haven for refugees. The entirety of our country was built on immigration, from top to bottom, ( and yes, good AND bad. )

          His other actions have also been extremely detrimental. He is trying to return us to a manufacturing economy, which you can ask China of 10 years ago...is a pretty poor one. He's taking queues from the USSR and trying to build an insanely expensive wall. ( How well did that work out last time, btw? ) He has dissolved a trade pact designed to maintain our leverage over a massively growing China. He is trying to massively increase import taxes, when we import FAR more than export. ( Guess who gets to pay for the increased cost? )

          The list goes on and on, and as has been said, this isn't political. I don't care at all about Republican or Democrat. In fact, before this election, I hated both so equally, I couldn't even tell you which was which. I honestly didn't know which one Obama was. This psychopath however needs to go.

          Oh, 1 last final thing. What is Trumps worst quality? His diplomacy. What's the actual real number 1 job of the president? ( Since they can't actually set a budget, enact laws, etc. etc. ) That's right: Chief Diplomat.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by zechio View Post
            Then, there's the unAmerican part. This is far simpler. The United States of America was founded by immigrants, and became great through massive immigration and being a safe haven for refugees. The entirety of our country was built on immigration, from top to bottom, ( and yes, good AND bad. )
            The U.S.A. was created by the decendents of COLONIST that stole the land with the use of might. Immigrants arrived to the COLONYS and after it became the U.S.A. Many immigrants did not survie the trip over, the work, the crime, the new politics or the natives. I would not call it a safe haven.

            Add to that:

            There have been times in the U.S.A. when our forfathers locked out immigrants. They did it to the Irish and the Jews.

            - - - Updated - - -
            Last edited by MecKILL; January 30th, 2017, 01:46 PM. Reason: forum screwed up

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            • #21
              Originally posted by MecKILL View Post
              The U.S.A. was created by the decendents of COLONIST that stole the land with the use of might. Immigrants arrived to the COLONYS and after it became the U.S.A. Many immigrants did not survie the trip over, the work, the crime, the new politics or the natives. I would not call it a safe haven.

              Add to that:

              There have been times in the U.S.A. when our forfathers locked out immigrants. They did it to the Irish and the Jews.

              - - - Updated - - -
              Yes, I shouldn't have really wrote founders, I was in a big rush as I had an appointment to get to. However, immigration was key to the US becoming what it is today.

              You may notice how I said "and bad". I don't hold up the founders as gods, they were regular humans that made lots of mistakes as well. This does not mean repeating it is OK, or that it wasn't contradictory/unAmerican when it happened.

              There's no reason at all for this immigration/refugee ban. We should have laxed the regulations that are already in place a decade ago. This fear of terrorism is ridiculous, and exactly what they want. Terrorism isn't even a footnote on the yearly deaths.

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              • #22
                It took alot of our own people to bring down the towers. Since then we had many wanna-be terrorist pop up.

                The trouble is this. The Globelist do not want to give up power and will do anything to make sure Trump only gets four years. They have a bunch of allies in thosee seven countries that would be more than happy to send a few terrorists our way just to make Trump look bad.

                I know, I know, it sounds like a load of hmm... junk. It was the Globelist in our goverment that made ISIS. They also gave ISIS guns and money. Would you bet the life of a loved one they would not bring ISIS to the U.S.A. just to get back into power in four years?

                - - - Updated - - -
                Last edited by MecKILL; January 30th, 2017, 02:47 PM. Reason: forums keeps double posting

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                • #23
                  Reading this thread is exactly why I didn't post any political comics before. The justification, normalization, hypocrisy, fear as policy, conspiracy as ideology, and (in some cases) outright ignorance is staggering.

                  ---

                  Rudy Giuliani admitted (on Fox News) that Trump approached him to create a "Muslim ban" "legally". Barring "Muslims" while being deferential to Christians from the same country of origin is discriminatory, which is a direct violation of the First Amendment's Establishment Clause, thereby making it unConstitutional.

                  Does this forgive it happening in the past? Absolutely not. Does it then mean it's okay now? Absolutely not.

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                  • #24
                    I would just like to say, you drew his hands entirely too large.

                    With that being said, I do not agree with what he is doing, but it was one of his campaign promises. It seems to me that he is just doing what he said he was going to do. Again, I am not condoning his actions, I find them deplorable, but he is doing what America hired him to do.

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                    • #25
                      But, he should be doing it with legislation, not executive order. That ensures at least some vetting. Note, I felt the same way about every previous president using executive orders to push their agenda. I understand it a tiny bit in the face of congressional majority being obstructionists for no better reason than partisan nonsense... but I still don't like it. Besides, that's what state level representative voting is for. If your representatives are being obstructionists and slowing down the process... vote them out.

                      As to the size of his hands, I had to wrestle with my own style on the issue. I don't know if you guys notice, but I always draw hands, heads, ears, and usually noses WAY bigger than they should be.

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                      • #26
                        You didn't lose this reader either Woody, keep up the great work!

                        I apologize ahead of time for this wall of text, but this is from an immigration attorney, and I thought people interested in this topic would like to know exactly what goes on to get a refugee settled here in the US, and how difficult it would be to get a terrorist through (when getting assigned a country can be relatively random anyhow).

                        A "temporary ban" (we'll see on that) does exactly nothing to prevent a terrorist from entering this country. The vetting process which people complain about, is nuanced, and takes a LOT longer than most people would ever expect. People fear that which they don't understand. Because of that I'm linking information about what it takes to get to this country as a refugee.

                        Lastly, we've had more toddlers kill people in the US than "islamic terrorists" since 9/11, and also more deaths by "christian males", so maybe we start not letting us (by this I mean that I fit that description) back into the country too, and see if that helps. It's an asinine useless solution that preys on fear mongers, since its a problem that doesn't exist.

                        The quote starts below

                        "Most of my friends know I practice Immigration law. As such, I have worked with the refugee community for over two decades. This post is long, but if you want actual information about the process, keep reading.

                        I can not tell you how frustrating it is to see the misinformation and outright lies that are being perpetuated about the refugee process and the Syrian refugees. So, here is a bit of information from the real world of someone who actually works and deals with this issue.

                        The refugee screening process is multi-layered and is very difficult to get through. Most people languish in temporary camps for months to years while their story is evaluated and checked.

                        First, you do not get to choose what country you might be resettled into. If you already have family (legal) in a country, that makes it more likely that you will go there to be with family, but other than that it is random. So, you can not simply walk into a refugee camp, show a document, and say, I want to go to America. Instead, the UNHCR (United Nations High Commissioner on Refugees) works with the local authorities to try to take care of basic needs. Once the person/family is registered to receive basic necessities, they can be processed for resettlement. Many people are not interested in resettlement as they hope to return to their country and are hoping that the turmoil they fled will be resolved soon. In fact, most refugees in refugee events never resettle to a third country. Those that do want to resettle have to go through an extensive process.

                        Resettlement in the U.S. is a long process and takes many steps. The Refugee Admissions Program is jointly administered by the Bureau of Population, Refugees, and Migration (PRM) in the Department of State, the Office of Refugee Resettlement (ORR) in the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), and offices within the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) within DHS conducts refugee interviews and determines individual eligibility for refugee status in the United States.

                        We evaluate refugees on a tiered system with three levels of priority.

                        First Priority are people who have suffered compelling persecution or for whom no other durable solution exists. These individuals are referred to the United States by UNHCR, or they are identified by the U.S. embassy or a non-governmental organization (NGO).

                        Second priority are groups of “special concern” to the United States. The Department of State determines these groups, with input from USCIS, UNHCR, and designated NGOs. At present, we prioritize certain persons from the former Soviet Union, Cuba, Democratic Republic of Congo, Iraq, Iran, Burma, and Bhutan.

                        Third priority are relatives of refugees (parents, spouses, and unmarried children under 21) who are already settled in the United States may be admitted as refugees. The U.S.-based relative must file an Affidavit of Relationship (AOR) and must be processed by DHS.

                        Before being allowed to come to the United States, each refugee must undergo an extensive interviewing, screening, and security clearance process conducted by Regional Refugee Coordinators and overseas Resettlement Support Centers (RSCs). Individuals generally must not already be firmly resettled (a legal term of art that would be a separate article). Just because one falls into the three priorities above does not guarantee admission to the United States.

                        The Immigration laws require that the individuals prove that they have a “well-founded fear,” (another legal term which would be a book.) This fear must be proved regardless of the person’s country, circumstance, or classification in a priority category. There are multiple interviews and people are challenged on discrepancies. I had a client who was not telling the truth on her age and the agency challenged her on it. Refugees are not simply admitted because they have a well founded fear. They still must show that they are not subject to exclusion under Section 212(a) of the INA. These grounds include serious health matters, moral or criminal matters, as well as security issues. In addition, they can be excluded for such things as polygamy, misrepresentation of facts on visa applications, smuggling, or previous deportations. Under some circumstances, the person may be eligible to have the ground waived.

                        At this point, a refugee can be conditionally accepted for resettlement. Then, the RSC sends a request for assurance of placement to the United States, and the Refugee Processing Center (RPC) works with private voluntary agencies (VOLAG) to determine where the refugee will live. If the refugee does have family in the U.S., efforts will be made to resettle close to that family.

                        Every person accepted as a refugee for planned admission to the United States is conditional upon passing a medical examination and passing all security checks. Frankly, there is more screening of refugees than ever happens to get on an airplane. Of course, yes, no system can be 100% foolproof. But if that is your standard, then you better shut down the entire airline industry, close the borders, and stop all international commerce and shipping. Every one of those has been the source of entry of people and are much easier ways to gain access to the U.S. Only upon passing all of these checks (which involve basically every agency of the government involved in terrorist identification) can the person actually be approved to travel.

                        Before departing, refugees sign a promissory note to repay the United States for their travel costs. This travel loan is an interest-free loan that refugees begin to pay back six months after arriving in the country.

                        Once the VOLAG is notified of the travel plans, it must arrange for the reception of refugees at the airport and transportation to their housing at their final destination.
                        This process from start to finish averages 18 to 24 months, but I have seen it take years.

                        The reality is that about half of the refugees are children, another quarter are elderly. Almost all of the adults are either moms or couples coming with children. Each year the President, in consultation with Congress, determines the numerical ceiling for refugee admissions. For Fiscal Year (FY) 2016, the proposed ceiling is 85,000. We have been averaging about 70,000 a year for the last number of years. (Source: Refugee Processing Center)

                        Over one-third of all refugee arrivals (35.1 percent, or 24,579) in FY 2015 came from the Near East/South Asia—a region that includes Iraq, Iran, Bhutan, and Afghanistan.
                        Another third of all refugee arrivals (32.1 percent, or 22,472) in FY 2015 came from Africa.
                        Over a quarter of all refugee arrivals (26.4 percent, or 18,469) in FY 2015 came from East Asia — a region that includes China, Vietnam, and Indonesia. (Source: Refugee Processing Center)

                        Finally, the process in Europe is different. I would be much more concerned that terrorists are infiltrating the European system because they are not nearly so extensive and thorough in their process."

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                        • #27
                          You Should Print and sell full size posters of this.

                          Can I buy the first one if you do?

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                          • #28
                            Being a brit, its insane watching from the sidelines some of the insanity that is going on with Trump in office (of course its not helped having to deal with the insanity that is brexit at the same time), even if you overlook how disgusting this ban flies in the face of human rights and the amount of people who are going to suffer because of it, the countries specifically targeted have accounted for almost none of the terrorism attacks in the US, and completely ignores countries that have proven to have terrorism links, bonus points in that it looks like several of those countries have business ties to Trump.... its like the average american didnt understand just how hard it is for people to emmigrate to the USA in the first place. :s

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                            • #29
                              • Executive power = Taking any action that the Congress refuses or does not have time to handle.
                              • Congress power overrides Executive power - IF they can get it done
                              Last edited by MecKILL; February 2nd, 2017, 12:11 AM.

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                              • #30
                                Won't loose me over this, even though I disagree with you. They ban travel from 7 countries for 120 days, which out of 50 counties with majority Muslim populations if like 8% of all Muslims. Not a Muslim ban, but a ban on people from particularly unstable countries. And since a Pew poll estimated that 350 million Muslims support violent Jihad, I think some caution is prudent. Based on my quick research of Presidential bans going back to the mid 1800's his actions are legal, or have been in the past, lawyers whose profession is changing normal words into indecipherable babble, may make it illegal this time.
                                As for what is un-American, we all have different views of that. At least 10 majority Muslim countries make being gay punishable by death. 52% of British Muslims think it should be, at a minimum, illegal. I would call that un-American, but a lot of American want to allow people that have those views to immigrate to the US in large numbers. I feel caution is advised.
                                Last edited by Soehne; February 2nd, 2017, 03:50 PM.

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